Originally Posted By DlandDug >>For example, in the 1906 San Francisco earthquake and fire, US Army soldiers were called up to ensure peace and calm in the streets and to help put out the fire and to take care of refugees.<< Not really. The handling of the San Francisco earthquake and fire makes Katrina look like a text book example of preparedness and execution. San Francisco's Mayor Eugene Schmitz, as well as his entire board of supervisors were under the control of political boss Abe Ruef, who had been systematically looting the city for years. Among the dubious accomplishments of these thieves was the creation of mile after mile of poorly built wooden structures, many on landfill hastily created along the coastline. General Frederick Funston of the nearby Presidio was a career military man who believed that he was destined to save San Francisco from Mayor Schmitz and his cronies. When the earthquake hit, Funston marched troops into the city with no orders of any kind. It was unprecedented in US history. Troops dynamited buildings, shot at looters as well as citizens, and were finally called off by the combined efforts of local authorities and the federal government. The aftermath was a staggering series of missteps and mistakes-- all compounded by political rancor. In the end, most of San Francisco burned to the ground, leaving hundreds of thousands homeless. Sad that the lessons of 1906 didn't resonate successfully to 2005.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>zzzzzzzzzzz Maybe I should just start dumping a ton of quotes by Michael Moore in here.<< Yes, some would rather be entertained by the fiction of Michael Moore, rather than look at the reality of the situation. But, as the original poster pointed out: >>But, the facts though intresting are irrelevant. <sarcasm><<
Originally Posted By ecdc "Hurricane Katrina hit a huge amount of terriroty. Everyone thought it wasn't goign to go anywhere near New Orleans until its path shifted 150 miles on August 26th. There is no humanly possible way for FEMA to have an emergency responce crew in every major city, everywhere in the south at that time." Hmmm, listen to the "blame the victims" guy or one of the country's most respected historians. This is a toughy. Brown did nothing. Period. He didn't do his job. Douglas Brinkley documents it quite effectively. Nagin was equally, if not more, culpable. But apparently no one wants to listen to reason when it's really the fault of the poor and the handicapped that they didn't load up the Toyota Forerunner with bottled water and trailmix and head to their brother or sisters house in the Hamptons.
Originally Posted By ecdc "Yes, some would rather be entertained by the fiction of Michael Moore, rather than look at the reality of the situation. But, as the original poster pointed out: >>But, the facts though intresting are irrelevant. <sarcasm><<" Apparently, they sure are. Facts like the vast, vast majority of those who stayed had no way out and didn't just decide to "ride it out" for fun. Facts like Ray Nagin waiting to declare a mandatory evacuation out of fear of business retaliation. Facts like Mike Brown doing nothing even when warned Katrina would be a devastating storm. No one did anything. Those pesky scientists had been predicting this for years in Scientific America and National Geographic, among others. But what do scientists know, anyway?
Originally Posted By DlandDug A fact can be a beautiful thing. I suggest reading through posts 45-49 to see that the facts do not support many conclusions here that are clearly informed by animus.
Originally Posted By YourPalEd Scientists can be replaced by christian anti-abortionists, bush has proven this with our federal government.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >> Scientists can be replaced by christian anti-abortionists,<< What do science and abortion have to do with each other? >>bush has proven this with our federal government.<< Non sequitir.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <a href="http://home.bellsouth.net/s/editorial.dll?pnum=1&bfromind=846&eeid=5022961&_sitecat=1522&dcatid=0&eetype=article&render=y&ac=3&ck=&ch=ne&s=na&_lid=575&_lnm=news+relatednews" target="_blank">http://home.bellsouth.net/s/ed itorial.dll?pnum=1&bfromind=846&eeid=5022961&_sitecat=1522&dcatid=0&eetype=article&render=y&ac=3&ck=&ch=ne&s=na&_lid=575&_lnm=news+relatednews</a> <<<City officials have set Tuesday - the storm's first anniversary - as the deadline for homeowners to gut or otherwise clean up their properties. "The city needs to do what it needs to do," councilman Arnie Fielkow said Friday at a meeting during which the City Council approved some exemptions to the deadline. People who don't comply with the deadline after being put on notice face a range of possible penalties, from liens being placed on their property to the seizure or destruction of homes. That the city has a long way to go to recover was evident Sunday during various observances for the anniversary. That bothers Patricia Jones, who works at a recovery center. She said many people remain displaced or are waiting for checks or direction from city officials before deciding what they should do. And she wonders how the city will handle the open-ended deadline for the Lower Ninth, where she lived before Katrina. "The city hasn't even done their part in a year," she said, noting that many public schools remain closed and housing is still in short supply.>>>
Originally Posted By gadzuux <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14533214/site/newsweek/?rf=snwnewsletter" target="_blank">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14 533214/site/newsweek/?rf=snwnewsletter</a> Still Blind to the Poverty By Jonathan Alter Newsweek Sept. 4, 2006 issue (Excerpt) [Shortly after Katrina] Bush went to Jackson Square in New Orleans and made televised promises not only for Katrina relief but to address some of the underlying struggles of the poor. He proposed "worker recovery accounts" to help evacuees find work by paying for job training, school and child care; an Urban Homesteading Act that would make empty lots and loans available to the poor to start over, and a Gulf Enterprise Zone to spur business investment in poor areas. Small ideas, perhaps, but good ones. Not only has the president done much less than he promised on the financing and logistics of Gulf Coast recovery, he has dropped the ball entirely on using the storm and its aftermath as an opportunity to fight poverty. Worker recovery accounts and urban homesteading never got off the ground, and the new enterprise zone is mostly an opportunity for Southern companies owned by GOP campaign contributors to make some money in New Orleans. "This is the greatest lost opportunity I've ever seen in public life," Sen. John Kerry told me last week. "The Jackson Square speech ought to stand as one of the all-time monuments to hollow rhetoric and broken promises." Kerry depicted the response during the last year as a slow-motion Superdome II, where the federal government once more walked right past people in distress. << Bear this in mind this week when bush goes back to new orleans to give another rousing speech - of lies. But hey - maybe the GOP stalwarts can find a way to blame bush's broken promises on the governor and the mayor.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Gadzuux, are we hearing this whining from Mississippi? Are they blaming Bush and the rest of the world like you are trying to do? Bush can only do so much with local corrupt politicians in Louisiana. Next time post something that is actually his fault and not a lie and smokescreen to democrat failures.
Originally Posted By gadzuux So then you're blaming bush's broken promises on the governor and mayor. What a surprise.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom In responce to post # 69: <<<Not only has the president done much less than he promised on the financing and logistics of Gulf Coast recovery, he has dropped the ball entirely on using the storm and its aftermath as an opportunity to fight poverty. Worker recovery accounts and urban homesteading never got off the ground, and the new enterprise zone is mostly an opportunity for Southern companies owned by GOP campaign contributors to make some money in New Orleans. "This is the greatest lost opportunity I've ever seen in public life," Sen. John Kerry told me last week. "The Jackson Square speech ought to stand as one of the all-time monuments to hollow rhetoric and broken promises." Kerry depicted the response during the last year as a slow-motion Superdome II, where the federal government once more walked right past people in distress. <<>>> Its articles like this that really bother me. Instead of talking about the Billions of charity and contributions that Americans, the Federal Government and our International friends have made. We get more of this! Again I ask the question, How much is enough?
Originally Posted By gadzuux Are you really okay with the president standing before the nation saying he's going to do this that and the other - for political expediency - and then do none of it? Are you okay with a president that lies so blatently and effortlessly? I guess so - it's the only way one can be a bush supporter.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Not really" Yes, really. I have a lot of expertise in this area, and what I said happened, happened. "Yes, some would rather be entertained by the fiction of Michael Moore" Not the point. The point is that posting the diatribes of paid pundits is of no value.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Again I ask the question, How much is enough? < hopefully for John Kerry that time has already past.....
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom In responce to post # 73: So you expect President Bush to solve poverty in America. And then your surprised when it didn't happen in one year. All President Bush has to say is that the Democrats have fought him every step of the way on that. Heck, the Democrats voted against legislation that would have raised the minimum wage. And if you honestly believe that the Presidenency is the sole supreme power of the Federal Government. Then what do we need the US Congess and US Senate for? I really think that Senator Kerry should have thought this on through a little better before opening his mouth.
Originally Posted By jonvn "And if you honestly believe that the Presidenency is the sole supreme power of the Federal Government. Then what do we need the US Congess and US Senate for?" Since the Republicans control both houses, and the President is the leader of the Republican party, then he basically controls both houses, too.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Gadzuux, with the Billions that have been set up to go to Katrina recovery are you really going to blame Bush for the money not getting to where it is supposed to be fast enough? It's Bush's fault? You sure? You might want to figure out who is to blame and stop with a lie that Bush broke any promises. Again, he can only do so much with the corrupt idiots in N.O. who have been screwing the people for 50 years down in that neck of the woods.
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> So you expect President Bush to solve poverty in America. << I expect him to make some effort towards a solution. I also expect him to follow through on commitments. Even the ones he makes to poor people. >> You're not fooling anybody with that. Don't be so disengenuous. From the same link ... >> If the president was MIA, Congress hasn't been much better. Consider the estate tax and the minimum wage. The House in June passed a steep reduction of the estate tax (so as to apply only to couples leaving more than $10 million to their heirs) that would cost the Treasury three quarters of a trillion dollars over the next decade. Last time I checked, that was real money. Senate Republicans tried to push it through by linking the bill to an increase in the minimum wage, which has not been raised in nine years. The idea was to get credit for giving crumbs to the working poor—but only if the superrich receive hundreds of billions of dollars. Fortunately, the bill failed. Unfortunately, other tax cuts for the wealthy keep moving through the system, ballooning the deficit and drying up money for everything else. Meanwhile, the GOP wants to make welfare reform (now 10 years old) more punitive, which will increase suffering. << That about sums it up. >> Then what do we need the US Congess and US Senate for? << Lately, I agree with you. They're worse than useless - instead of actually performing oversight on the executive branch, they've been debating the pledge of alligence, gay marriage amendments, and the ever popular flag burning. Heck, the were BARELY able to renew the 'voting rights act'. So what do we need these clowns for, anyway?
Originally Posted By gadzuux Rats. I forgot to include KTs quote before my response above. >> All President Bush has to say is that the Democrats have fought him every step of the way on that. Heck, the Democrats voted against legislation that would have raised the minimum wage. <<
