Originally Posted By WilliamK99 After CNN posted the poll about 60% of Americans agreeing with the Presiden't health care plan, then admitting later that the poll was 75% Democrats, I don't agree with alot of polls.... Most are worded in such a way to get the response the pollsters are looking for...
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Your assumptions are... All racists are white<< No. >>All racists are Republicans...<< Most likely. Or at least identify as "conservative." Mind, there's a huge difference between saying "all Republicans are racist" - which I would never say - and saying, "all racists are Republicans" which is probably true with a very few exceptions. >>30% of Americans are Republicans<< Depending on the poll, that's about right. >>15% of Americans protest Obama<< I wouldn't say they all protest him, like the tea party today. I'd guesstimate that anywhere from 15% to 25% of Americans are the kind of crazy people we've witnessed over the last few months, or they're sympathetic to those people. Again, the polling bears me out. If you look, for example, at the people who self-identify as Republicans, then look at where they get their news (almost always it's Fox News), then look at their beliefs, it's about right. So, assuming that 30% of Americans are Republicans, and 20% of Americans are crazy, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that a lot of Republicans are crazy. Sure, there's like 1% of the birther movement that identifies as Democrat - possibly diehard hold-over Hillary supporters. But they're negligible to the polling. Sorry to burst your bubble - and judging by your childish reaction, it's really been burst - but the Republican party has been hijacked by nutcases who think the President wants to kill grandma, that he's a Muslim, that he supports terrorists, that he wasn't born in the U.S., etc.
Originally Posted By ecdc First, I never said 50% of the Republican party was racist. I have no idea where you're getting that. I said it's within the realm of possibility that 50% of the party are these crazy nutballs who won't let their kids listen to the President, are birthers, etc. And I've provided evidence that backs me up. Which leads me to... Second, you're throwing a tantrum about me being an "idiot" and "stupid," then you chicken out and say, "But I don't have any data to back me up." How convenient for you. Hey, I get that it's tough for good, decent Republicans right now. And even if 50% of the party IS crazy, that means 50% of it is full of good, reasonable, decent people. So where are they? Why aren't they standing up and saying they don't want any part of this? Instead, they act exactly like you. They get all hot and bothered and defensive and insist that their party is a-ok and it's just a tiny minority of people doing this stuff. But that won't fly anymore. If you don't want to be associated with nutcases who don't even think the President's a citizen, either boot them from your party or leave the party. It's not that hard.
Originally Posted By dlkozy >>>"I'd guesstimate ..."<<< By all means let's take that info to the bank! Really ecdc-how about facts and not polls/opinions for a change in this topic? You have said a lot that sounds like a whole lot of made up stuff.
Originally Posted By ecdc Again, I've provided the data. You and William are more than welcome to refute it. If you have evidence the polling is wrong, let's hear it. Until then, we're forced to conclude that you don't like the facts, and are therefore complaining about them despite their accuracy. If my posts are as ridiculous as you both say, they should be easy to refute. So let's hear it. What evidence do you have that shows my numbers are dead wrong?
Originally Posted By Mr X ***And even if 50% of the party IS crazy, that means 50% of it is full of good, reasonable, decent people. So where are they? Why aren't they standing up and saying they don't want any part of this? Instead, they act exactly like you. They get all hot and bothered and defensive and insist that their party is a-ok and it's just a tiny minority of people doing this stuff. But that won't fly anymore.*** Here, here! GREAT point, but you also have to realize they have no choice. Look at Colin Powell, American Hero and prominent member of the Moderate Conservative wing...he goes against the grain to endorse Obama and spells out his reasons in GREAT detail, leaning heavily on the damning choice of a complete incompetent for V.P., along with a campaign that had no substance but instead relied solely on vicious attacks (both very fair points if you ask me). And what happens to him? He's mocked by former colleague Dick Cheney, called a traitor and a racist and worse by Boss Limbaugh, and told in no uncertain terms by the collective Right where he can stick it. So, what's the incentive for a reasonable Republican to speak out? They'll only be shouted down, after all. So they get frustrated, and try to console themselves with the "we'll come around eventually, and anyway both sides do it so it's not so bad, and oh yeah it's only a tiny minority anyway" mentality.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Fannie Mae was established in 1938 - they've had 71 years to get it right; it is broke. Freddie Mac was established in 1970 - they've had 39 years to get it right; it is broke. Together Fannie and Freddie have now led the entire world into the worst economic collapse in 80 years.> I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks Fannie and Freddie "led us" (i.e. were the primary cause of the economic meltdown, rather than a secondary or tertiary cause) does not understand how and why the meltdown happened.
Originally Posted By HRM post #21 >>> "Seems the government works just fine when people are voting against gay marriage but it's broke with everything else." <<< please explain
Originally Posted By HRM >>> " White people are still more racist than any other group (although it's still a small minority of that group) and their racism is far more damaging than that of other groups. "<<< WoW i won't even go into the historical inaccuracy of this statement from a global perspective; then of course we can speak about how WHITE can be defined, as some European groups have been victimized (and still are being victimized) by other European groups. The more I think about it, that statement really invalidates it's own reasoning.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "White people are still more racist than any other group (although it's still a small minority of that group) and their racism is far more damaging than that of other groups." I don't know if they are more racist, but I do know that in America white people been the oppressors for centuries. It's rather disingenuous to imply that all racism is equal. It's no different with sexism. Men have traditionally oppressed women, so their actions against them carry more weight than the other way around.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones Going forward I wonder how appropriate the belief is that "all racism isn't equal." Certainly we shouldn't tolerate "revenge racism" or condone racism exhibited by certain peoples to "make up" for past injustices. That doesn't solve anything.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt Of course it doesn't, and racism in any form shouldn't be tolerated. Nevertheless, the fact is minorities in this country see white people as the oppressors. It is NOT a good thing to see a million white Republicans people marching in DC protesting health care carrying inflammatory signs. That in itself is verging on a being racist statement. Perhaps it isn't intentional, but many people will see it that way.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt Seriously, the GOP needs to start recruiting more minorities and intellectuals if they want to be taken seriously.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***It is NOT a good thing to see a million white Republicans people marching in DC protesting health care carrying inflammatory signs.*** Reality check real quick here; it was more like 60-70 thousand according to police and fire departments. (I think it important to call that out, because the more the bigots hear "one million!" or "two million!" people showed up, the more justified they can feel in their own prejudices)
Originally Posted By ecdc >>i won't even go into the historical inaccuracy of this statement from a global perspective<< That's good, since we're not discussing a global perspective at all. We're discussing the role of modern racism in America. Are we really going to argue that minorities have had more impact vis a vis racism than caucasian Americans?
Originally Posted By ecdc >>We're discussing the role of modern racism in America.<< Actually, come to think if it, we're not even discussing that. This whole notion of "racism" came up as a joke (I assume) from spokker. I replied with my own tongue-in-cheek joke about it. From there it snowballed into a ridiculous attempt at misdirection by saying that, "Well, there's racism by people who aren't white, dontcha know!" Which proves...what? No one's really bothered to say. The only thing I did was present some numbers, which I made quite clear were not somehow definitive, suggesting that it's not unreasonable to assume that 8-10% of Americans are racist. That's it.
Originally Posted By barboy ecdc, what is racism? I have access to a dictionary or two and I already have a working understanding of the word so I'm hoping(if you answer) not to see some DBeer job. I'm curious as to how you define 'racism' since it seems to be a popular theme with you on WE. While were at it maybe we can play with the word 'sexism' too.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "It is NOT a good thing to see a million white Republicans people marching in DC protesting health care carrying inflammatory signs." They were white? Oh, I didn't notice. Look how much more evolved I am. Snicker.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt <a href="http://crooksandliars.com/kombiz/how-i-missed-2-million-person-teabagging-fl" target="_blank">http://crooksandliars.com/komb...gging-fl</a>
Originally Posted By fkurucz Food for thought: "Conservatives" love the idea of schools vouchers, so they could send their kids to private schools on the taxpayer's dime. In this case a "single payer system" is just hunky dory. But when it comes to healthcare they are against single payer, even thought the gov't has no plans to open its own clinics and hospitals to compete with the current system of private practices.
