Originally Posted By magic0214 We have a Splitsville in Tampa and I love it! It is a table service restaurant while you play, which I think is a great concept. Best Chicken Fingers around. The concept art was great too, seems like it would liven up the place. Disney Blog comments were annoying after a while. Yes, I understand you love the Adventurer's Club... What are people's thoughts on the bowling idea itself? Do you like the idea of it? Any word of other confirmed things not yet announced?
Originally Posted By dshyates Based on how much everyone HATED the offerings at Anaheim Garden Walk, in which high end bowling was one. I am guessing most are going to hate the concept. That said I will be checking the place out. But I am moving about 3 miles from DtD.
Originally Posted By ReelJustice I think it's a good addition and more fitting than Virgin ever was. I also continue to find it humorous and sad that nothing is being done to PI when it was so urgent 3 years ago to shut it down. Bold New Vision! MAGICal fanbois will claim victory with this announcement but this had nothing to do with PI.
Originally Posted By WDWVacationer Back in 2008, I went along with shuttering the clubs. I thought they had a plan. But now it has become apparent they ddin't. They should have had a plan ready to go as soon as the auctioned all the lights and speakers off.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^They had a plan. It was just a bad one and it was hatched in the 'spend money like there's no tomorrow' days of 2003-2007. Since then they've had numerous plans, but most of them simply involve a bunch of out of touch, overpaid execs saying 'what are we gonna do? what are we gonna do??!?! what are we gonna do?!??!' over and over and over ... Guess what? They still don't know. Yet, they keep their jobs or get better ones ... only in America.
Originally Posted By ChiMike The way they misjudged the commercial retailers and restaurateurs is EMBARRASSING. Developers across the country were losing their properties from sea to shining sea because of one universal fact that everyone and their brother recognized. Washington DC knew, Wall Street knew, EVERYBODY KNEW! This universal fact that everyone except TDO knew was that businesses were defaulting on rent, no longer expanding their operations, and no longer had customers with discretionary income. RETAILERS WERE TAPPED OUT, THEY WERE NOT GROWING. Everybody knew this! Billy the commercial realtor in Arkansas knew. GARDEN WALK NEXT TO DISNEYLAND KNEW!!! Yet, the crack pot crew at TDO were pushing forward with not only Pleasure Island, BUT Flamingo Crossings!!! Embarrassing.
Originally Posted By Lee hisownself Kharma...ain't it great. Seriously...how do these people keep their jobs? After squandering that much good will with the PI fans? After leaving three years worth of money from the closed clubs on the table? And still too arrogant to admit their mistake. Mind-boggling.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 Lets be honest. The reason PI was closed was because it wasnt making money. If it were PI would still be open. Disney closed PI with nothing more than a thought of what would replace it. Now they are trying to respin their last announcement. What could they have possibly discovered in their construction that would make them think that they could do something even better...except maybe that PI is sinking into the lake?
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>What could they have possibly discovered in their construction that would make them think that they could do something even better...<< Here is my thought. It is not grounded in much fact, more of a guess. 1) They shopped a development plan to interested tenants with prices. They couldn't sell it to enough potential tenants committed to get the green light on funding the buildout of the project. 2) They had a clothing boutique, this Apricot Lane place, and couldn't come to an agreement or deal structure for a lease to place them in Disney's preferred location (Marketplace or Westside), but they did not want to lose the tenant so they were able to settle on the old Harley Davidson site. Something that they never would have wanted if #1 above was going well. Looking at 1 & 2, tells me that they realize the original concept under today's landscape was not viable and saw that a different mix of uses in that area could bring quicker results in leasing. None of this was an issue when Disney was the operator of these locations. Now that they depend on third parties they are probably figuring out quickly that they are not in the driver's seat as much as they were before, when it came to dictating lease terms. This Apricot Lane example says a lot, to me at least. So, SJHYM, during the construction (the phase that was funded since they would have to do it for any future acceptable development of the site), the use plan changed and they are now trying to sell a new concept to potential tenants. I'm sure the leaked plans are one variation, possibly the primary or most current variation, of what they are trying to push. Like I said yesterday the thought was to help the Westside, which is on life-support (HOB is making a lot of noise) and place some sort of new entertainment venue behind Cirque. I assumed that would have been the WoC location, but Lee quickly corrected me with the accurate, and more sensible, location for that proposal.
Originally Posted By ChiMike 1) "They couldn't sell it to enough potential tenants and get them committed to receieve the green light on funding the buildout of the project."
Originally Posted By SeventyOne <Lets be honest. The reason PI was closed was because it wasnt making money.> By all accounts, PI as a whole made money--even Kevin Lansberry, the prime cheerleader behind the move admitted this. Every individual club but BET and Comedy Warehouse turned a profit (some more modest than others, but Mannequins and 8-Traxx were building-sized ATMs). However, TDO (1) thought they could make more money from 3rd parties, and (2) wanted out of the attraction-running business. The parks make money, too, but those are apparently up for sale as well. Doubt that's a coincidence, more like foreshadowing. <They shopped a development plan to interested tenants with prices. They couldn't sell it to enough potential tenants committed to get the green light on funding the buildout of the project.> First, they went after the wrong tenants initially. High-end restaurants were never going to relocate to a stroller thoroughfare with no valet parking still closely associated with cartoon characters; the idea DtD would be the next Sand Lake Road or Pointe Orlando showed a fundamental understanding of the Orlando market. Second, and I suspect this is still an issue, the rents are ridiculously high--Raglan and Paradiso pay $1 million a year PLUS 30% of revenue. You need a CostCo sized restaurant space with robot dinosaurs to sell people one the idea of $16 cheeseburgers to afford that kind of rent. Flamingo Crossing was even worse--it has no visibility and wasn't even going to be perceived as being "on property." If you want to open, say, a Sweet Tomatoes, why would you think about opening there when you can get cheaper rent and frontage along 192 by a Super Target? Again, overestimating the value of the Disney brand, and a fundamental lack of understanding of the Orlando market. At this point, I think a rebranding of PI is probably necessary. While some guests still show up every night prepared to go clubbing, among most people, especially locals, the name has come to mean "empty buildings." That also must contribute to the lack of tenants.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 I have hard that PI made money. I am not sure that was accurate at the end. IF it was, wouldnt Disney have made plans that included keep PI open as long as possible for the revenue and then close it when a new plan was in place. That wasnt the case. Disney had no concrete plans for PI when it closed.
Originally Posted By ChiMike SeventyOne You and I see eye to eye on this. Not only what you saw about Flamingo Crossings is true, but Disney didn't want to have any operational skin in the game! How are you going to attract retailers to that spit of land if you aren't even going to operate a Disney store or Disney restaurant. Absolutely braindead. These guys are selling chunks of property off in a fire sale fashion and they are completely out of their league when it comes to this industry.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >> IF it was, wouldn't Disney have made plans that included keep PI open as long as possible for the revenue and then close it when a new plan was in place.<< I haven't and will not state whether PI was making money because, like everyone, both answers seem to be credible. I will say, in response to your point SJHYM, is that if Disney was making a profit, but they saw the type of rents they could receive from third parties on what would be considered a very valuable retail site, I can totally seeing them giving up PI profits in exchange for what at the time would have been HUGE projected rents without the responsibility of being the operator.
Originally Posted By leobloom Let someone else invest money and take financial risk + collect astronomical rent = Landlord Disney sits back and profits. This seems to have been the logic they were operating under. Just another instance where Disney is hesitant to invest in WDW for everything but hotels or timeshares.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>Disney is hesitant to invest in WDW for everything but hotels or timeshares.<< Timeshares seem to be the only true growth that they, as a company, in terms of WDP&R, are embracing full on. A captured guest who has to keep buying admission and food year after year. Up front cash flow received on a perceived return of consideration/value decades in the future. What company wouldn't love that!? The other timeshare companies have made an absolute killing off of the last 8 years. They don't get to sell pricing theme park admission or $15 sodas. Can you only imagine how happy Disney is with DVC? And if Disney is SO happy with DVC, if it is such a good thing for Disney where they can't help themselves from oversaturation (see:millionaire). Then there is a loser. In the business world there is no such thing as a win win. Someone comes out on top, no matter how little of a margin. So, if DVC is so unbelievably wonderful to Disney, then using logic, it can't be that great of a financial deal for the guests. Produce whatever Excel spreadsheet you want. Disney is not in the business of giving guests great deals. Just perceived deals.
Originally Posted By Manfried PI never really made the money they wanted for the cost, hence the closure. I think Disney needs to rethink its shopping mall, oh I'm sorry, entertainment complex thinking.
Originally Posted By 3disneylocations >>>PI never really made the money they wanted for the cost, hence the closure. I think Disney needs to rethink its shopping mall, oh I'm sorry, entertainment complex thinking.<<< A CM (bartender @ CBR) stated they closed PI because once they stopped the cover charge, local gangs came in and were harrassing/mugging tourists. They didn't feel safe (can you blame them) and stopped going.
