Originally Posted By HokieSkipper AC broke even every year. Wasn't bleeding money. And even if it was in the red...so what? Not every attraction makes money in merchandising. Hell, Jungle Cruise itself is incredibly costly and has 0 merchandise. Might as well close it. It's not pulling it's weight. Who cares of it's a quintessential Disney attraction? Who cares that more people ride it than Kilimanjaro Safaris? It's not making money!
Originally Posted By wahooskipper No, the attractions don't make money but the admission cost is a factor of the cost-benefit of the attraction. When they eliminated the PI admission that changed the economics of the place considerably. And, I'd like to see some evidence of AC breaking even. With the soaring healthcare costs I find that hard to believe.
Originally Posted By SeventyOne <yeah bad, stupid Disney -- they cannot get 3rd parties to come in and drop significant coin in a time when NO ONE but no one is opening new shops and stores in any kind of numbers.> I've seen a lot of Disney apologists hide behind this "economy" argument (not trying to single you out VBDad, you're hardly the only one)--it's just not true tho, at least in the tourist corridor of SW Orlando. I can name at least a dozen restaurants that have opened or are under construction within the last year on 192, I-Drive and 535. Many could probably have been shoehorned into DTD (e.g. Bahama Breeze, Dave & Busters); all easily could have fit in Flamingo Crossing. The economy may still be in the crapper elsewhere, but here in Mousetown things have definitely turned around (for the moment). In other words, HW was always an unworkable idea--it wouldn't have succeeded in a great economy either. TDO seriously overestimates the value of being "on property," and set their rents too high.
Originally Posted By SeventyOne <And, I'd like to see some evidence of AC breaking even. With the soaring healthcare costs I find that hard to believe.> Kevin Lansberry grudgingly admitted this around the time of the Club closing. Probably in the Sentinel, if you search the old AdcClub threads from around that time (no easy task I know), could probably find the reference. I've also heard from bartenders, managers, door hosts and security personnel that the AdvClub made a modest profit--the two money-losers were Comedy Warehouse (due to the odd show schedule) and BET (due to a lack of customers). Two things to keep in mind. Any given night, people spent $25 for a ticket they used only at the AdvClub. Also, revenue from Jungle Juice, the tiki bar outside the front steps, counted toward AdvClub revenue.
Originally Posted By SeventyOne <Manfried...I've been thinking the same thing. While I enjoyed Adventurer's Club AND the Comedy Warehouse I didn't spend much money at either one. I suspect a lot of the "regulars" didn't either.> Another internet meme with little basis in fact. I know plenty of regulars, and believe me, we could sustain at least two AA chapters. With maybe a half-dozen exceptions (who still hung out with drinkers), most regulars were heavy drinkers until the last year of operation, when: 1) CMs were admitted to PI every night, and soon after, 2) All but the comedy clubs went 21+. Suddenly the AdvClub became the College Program hang-out more or less by default. CPs have no money, of course. This is also when the "Rocky Horrorization" of the Club really got out of hand. But I'm fairly certain by that point the decision to kill PI had been made. Of course, if profit is your sole motivation, the clubs to save were 8-Traxx and Mannequinns. Those were the two money trees. 8-Traxx could bring in $40k in a good weekend soley from the bars, forget about cover charges. Conventioneers with expense accounts love their Glowtinis and Patron shots.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Thanks for the information. So, I guess I go back to...why did they close the place then? Even the most knucklheaded regimes at Disney wouldn't just shut off the money fountain if there weren't some pretty good reasons.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>So, you go back to when there was an admission price for the Island and in the beginning it was a big hit. They eliminated the admission price as attendance started to freefall but that did nothing to increase sales in the individual clubs.<< Actually, I spent a lot of time at PI right after it first opened (I was working in Florida at the time). There was no admission charge to the Island, but every club had a cover charge. There were also strict rules about the age limits-- only Videopolis East allowed kids under 21. Later, they instituted the Island admission policy, and came up with the endless "New Year's Eve" promotion. This was when they pretty much lost my interest. I did always like the Comedy Warehouse and Adventurer's Club, though. The rest of the place was never the same from visit to visit. Today, it's just sad what has happened.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "You peeps still fighting about grass?" Yep, pretty much. At least this discussion is more interesting than the fight over the installation of an unthemed wheelchair ramp at DL's Haunted Mansion a few years ago.
Originally Posted By SeventyOne <Thanks for the information. So, I guess I go back to...why did they close the place then? Even the most knucklheaded regimes at Disney wouldn't just shut off the money fountain if there weren't some pretty good reasons.?Thanks for the information.> Everything I've heard suggests DTD management thought they could make more money by renting to third parties without the hassle of actually running things. That was when the movement to 3rd parties was in full swing (not that it's slowed down much)--valet and bell services were outsourced, new restaurants in AK and EPCOT were outsourced, rumors flew that bartenders and security were next. Also, the outsourcing plan seemed to work alright in Anaheim DTD--different market, different park layout of course, but that didn't seem to cross anyone on TDO's mind. Finally, there had always been a fuddy duddy corner of management who had been uncomfortable with the idea of an adults-only section; just speculation on my part, but I suspect they rallied behind the outsource plan somewhat out of spite toward PI. Once the decision was made, pride and CYA-mode prevented any sort of backtracking, despite it becoming obvious that the outsourcing plan was doomed to fail.
Originally Posted By Manfried Fact, Pleasure Island lost money its first year and never really returned its investment. Eisner threw money at it, but it never turned into the "must-see" place. With all the other stuff they put into Lake Buena Vista Village, oh I'm sorry, Downtown Disney, why keep throwing money at it? It never worked well as a gated place, and not having it gated made it even harder to make it have a good core. So, they threw in the towel. I miss the Adventurer's Club and others too, but just not enough $$$$ to sustain it.
Originally Posted By Manfried I do wish they would bring the Adventurer's Club back in some form in Adventureland over at the Magic Kingdom. I think it could be reworked as an attraction. Maybe it could be the new management at Tiki Room?
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper The AC just wouldn't work well in a short setting. It took the entire night to unfold the story. Put it at the Poly, DAKL, or the Boarwalk.
Originally Posted By HMButler79 I would rather wait and save up to go to DL every year or years than go to WDW again. At least DL has realized they NEED purist Spirits and Butlers such as we. They aren't taking us back to the 1950s for the DL Hotel for nothing.
Originally Posted By HMButler79 It has to do with it because one resort has been completly bending over and paranoid about keeping APs since the 50th while the other ONLY wants to cater to people who have NEVER BEEN to a Disney park EVER.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper I won't deny that WDW needs to do a bit better job of catering to the core fans, but going too far to the extreme either way isn't good.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt You can say that again. Most of DLR's problems have to do with locals who think they own the place in my opinion.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer I agree. Need to center a bit more to the fans, but not the nutty way. LOL
Originally Posted By CuriouserConstance "Yep, pretty much. At least this discussion is more interesting than the fight over the installation of an unthemed wheelchair ramp at DL's Haunted Mansion a few years ago." lol the nerve
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<You can say that again. Most of DLR's problems have to do with locals who think they own the place in my opinion.>> I dunno about that. I do feel some of them are obnoxious no-life cretins who do feel way too entitled about the place simply because they own an AP. BUT ... I also KNOW that if TDA had the apathetic bunch of fanbois, sweatshirt moms, DVCers and rube tourists that TDO gets to play with that DL would literally have had attractions falling apart and DCA would be largely what it was in 2001. I think I'll take the bad with the good in Anaheim because I've lived the other side in O-town and it ain't pretty.
