Originally Posted By Lisann22 Well, that was a tiny little detail left out....the other woman part. ;< Eh, well they deserve each other. I used to go round and round with my girlfriends over married men. What the hell makes a woman think she's any better AND knowing all this why would you do that to another woman? Ugh!
Originally Posted By trailsend Mrs. 2oon you are totally correct. And Lisann, your comment "why would you do that to another woman" is something I have always thought. Mrs. 2oon, no need for a shield. You can't say it any plainer. It's the same thing all of you have said, if a relationship is based on infidelity and deceit, it's not a relationship and never will be.
Originally Posted By MomofPrincess I agree, Lisann22. It's completely thoughtless, selfish and wrong.
Originally Posted By alexbook Well, intellectually, morally, and ethically, I agree with y'all that it's always a mistake to get involved with any relationship built on infidelity, but... Hypothetically speaking, if I were to fall in love with a woman who was involved with someone else, and that woman told me constantly about how awful things were with her husband, I can't say honestly say that I might not accept a proposition from that woman, hypothetically speaking, even if an objective observer might be able to tell me, and even if I already sort of knew deep down, that it was a really, really stupid thing to do.
Originally Posted By Lisann22 See, that was never a problem for me, if I knew they were married I don't care how attracted I was, I never indulged. Maybe I got too much "sisterhood" in my blood but I just knew/know that nothing is that good. If he's doing it to someone else, what in world makes me think I'm "the one" to cure it. That's just plain stupid. I know there are many reasons why people do what they do but I just never could cross that line.
Originally Posted By MomofPrincess I agree, Lisann22; I'm pretty sure I could never indulge like that, either. I can *see* how people could get caught up in a situation like that, but for me personally, I still couldn't do it. For the record, of course he did tell her that he & his wife had separated several times (which they had) and were seriously contemplating separation again and possibly divorce, but STILL. Doesn't make it right. ....And, totally unimportant now, but I just realized I misspelled "occassionally" in my original post. Whoops.
Originally Posted By TALL Disney Guy <I can *see* how people could get caught up in a situation like that, but for me personally, I still couldn't do it.> Psychology is very fascinating...Oprah had a show once where men who had cheated on their wives were in the studio with their wives---who knew about it and remained with their husbands. There was no condemning and no condoning, but it was very interesting to see the exploration of the issues.
Originally Posted By MomofPrincess Oh, yeah--I *love* stuff like that. Psychology is totally intriguing to me. Funny, I always said I'd never take back my husband if he cheated on me, but that was with my EX-husband. I didn't love him enough--ever. With my current husband, I'm 99.9% sure he wouldn't cheat, anyway, but if he did... I don't think I could stop loving him. I would hate what he *did*, and of course it would change the dynamics of our relationship, but I couldn't just flip a switch and say, "I'm done. It's over." You know? Although, really, who knows. I venture to say it's one of those things where you don't necessarily know how you'd react until you were in those particular shoes. For all I know, I could go TOTALLY crazy and start discarding french fry tails!!! (Sorry, TDG, couldn't resist.)
Originally Posted By trailsend >>>>See, that was never a problem for me, if I knew they were married I don't care how attracted I was, I never indulged. <<<< Lisann, I've always felt the very same way!
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost What everyone seems to be ignoring is the human element. There have been so many random comments about "once a cheater..always a cheater" and they never change and what a bunch of sleezebags. How about a person that is genuinely unhappy. That because of whatever reason the relationship they once had and loved went south. Timing is everything isn't it. If that person divorced and then happened to find someone that was "the one", no one would see any problem. If, on the other hand, the timing is off and the person happens to find someone previous to that then they are cheaters. I don't see it! Sometimes the injured party just needs a little boost of self worth to carry through with something that should have happened anyway. That being said, it is different than the "hypothetical" situation that has been described. If the "hypothetical" person really wants to be rid of the problem then the other person should be told. She is going to get hurt somewhere down the line anyway so why put it off. Wouldn't you want to know before you invested everything in a relationship?
Originally Posted By TALL Disney Guy <What everyone seems to be ignoring is the human element. There have been so many random comments about "once a cheater..always a cheater" and they never change and what a bunch of sleezebags. How about a person that is genuinely unhappy.> Goofy, that's what MomofPrincess and I kinda touched on earlier about psychology. How sometimes with things there can be lots of greys instead of black and whites. I could read about human thought and reasoning and actions all day if I didn't have two jobs, lol.
Originally Posted By Mrs 2oon <What everyone seems to be ignoring is the human element. There have been so many random comments about "once a cheater..always a cheater" and they never change and what a bunch of sleezebags. How about a person that is genuinely unhappy.> I completely understand your post, Goofyernmost, however, if someone if genuinely unhappy then maybe they should work on ending their current relationship before starting up another one....especially if there are kids involved. People who cheat aren't always bad people, however, women (or men) who start a relationship with those already in one should be prepared for it to end the same way it started. Meaning...dishonesty and lies. Human emotions are very complex and since I've never been in that situation I cannot speak from experience. However, as a wife of 20 years with two kids I just cannot sympathize with someone who started seeing a married man with kids.
Originally Posted By Lisann22 I know I'm going to come across as a major hardliner here but I'm sorry I just don't think it's right period! Especially with kids involved. I've from a family of broken families, single mom's making repeated bad decisions and deadbeat dad's. No one wins in these situations. I'm not coming down on you Goofyermost. I once found myself in a situation where I dated someone for a month and discovered they were married. I really liked this person but I ended it immediately. It was very hard to walk away. I could not live with the deceit and deception.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost Sorry TDG...I must have spaced out on that part. It just seems so unfair to just blanket everyone with the same ID. When I was married I had a very close friend that I talked too. A lot. I think I was in love with her at some point but I was married, unhappily married, but married none the less. It never once went beyond talking because I knew I was married, she knew I was married and I was too stupid to do anymore about it then that. I have regreted that decision everyday since then. I now have no one...she went on and married someone else and I will never know how my life might have been if I had at least tried. Like I said, timing is everything. The stigma that would have been created if I had followed up on my wants, would have been horrible. Why, because I was married and then would have been a "cheater". I waited and lost it all. Would I have ever done the same thing with someone else...I'd like to think not. At least not habitually. So cut a little slack, emotions are complicated animals and are not always governed by what is the morally acceptable way. We are not all sleezy for wanting something better.
Originally Posted By MomofPrincess >>That being said, it is different than the "hypothetical" situation that has been described. If the "hypothetical" person really wants to be rid of the problem then the other person should be told. She is going to get hurt somewhere down the line anyway so why put it off. Wouldn't you want to know before you invested everything in a relationship?<< I agree. I really wanted to get everyones' feelings on it first before saying anything to her; I wasn't sure if I was the only one thinking this way. Just for the record, she hasn't invested much in their relationship at ALL. It's very turbulent, and she's always questioning whether she should be in it at all. Maybe my "news" will be the deciding factor for her -- who knows.
Originally Posted By mele Goofy, a LOT of people dream about cheating or have the opportunity to cheat but they do not make that final leap. It sounds like you were too honest to cheat. That is a GOOD thing. It's sad that you stayed in a bad marriage when you were in love with someone else. It doesn't sound like you regret not cheating but that you regret not getting a divorce and marrying the person you were in love with. Most of the people commenting in this thread are married, have been married or have been in long term relationships. We have the right to call cheaters what they are. We've probably all been in situations where we had to make a conscious effort to stay true to our partners. It's not like we're making random judgements w/out knowing what it's like to be tempted. If you want something better then respect your current partner, your new love interest and yourself by take care of things before you cheat. How you start a relationship truly matters and starting it with lies and deceit is not a good foundation. Most people who cheat on their spouses never, ever leave them. They want a cheap thrill. Often they find themselves just as bored by their new lover as they were by their old lover. Honestly, I know people who have cheated and ended up happily married to the people they cheated with. It does happen but they are beating the odds. Often they married too young or for the wrong reasons and are finally making the right decision. And people who say "you can't help who you fall in love with" are ALWAYS in love with the wrong person. You TOTALLY can control who you fall in love with. You have to allow your mind and/or body to wander into dangerous territory first. And since when do people have the right to act out on their desires just because they have them? I see it, I want it, I'll take it? If it feels good, do it? It is selfishness.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost Mele, I understand what you are saying but what I regret was not trying to find out if there was a future in persuing the individual I was refering too. That would have been considered, at least, borderline cheating. Expressing a love for someone while in a committed relationship is as bad, in my mind, as doing the deed. But to not express it and find out where you stand is a huge risk. I stayed with my marriage because I loved my girls. I couldn't imagine life without them. They grew up and I got old and things are now different. The biggest difference is that the opportunities are no longer easily forthcoming. I honestly believe that not a day has gone by in the last twenty years that I have not thought of that lady. Wouldn't that be a kind of "cheating" as well? Life is terribly, terribly complex. That is why I love to loose myself at Disney. It's all so simple there...songs and laughter, fun and fantasy. What could be better.
Originally Posted By mele I can definitely see your point there. Falling in love with someone else, whether or not you actually physically cheat, is still a form of cheating. It's definitely a sign that there is something lacking in your main relationship. Sometimes you do have to dream of making things better, especially if you are unhappy. Otherwise no one would ever change their lives. I really, really understand the concept of staying together for the kids. It is possible if spouses aren't the fighting type. In a way, sticking in a relationship like that is almost like cheating yourself but when kids are involved, it's a choice a lot of people make. Pining away for a person for 20 years is really sad. I wouldn't consider it cheating unless you are married to someone else and spent a majority of the time wishing things were different. But that's more about massive regret than the thrill of finding someone new. I'm sorry that you have regrets about your choices. Sometimes it is so hard to forgive yourself for past choices and to let go of regret. It's so frustrating because no matter how hard you try, you can't ever change the past. It's also hard because regret can make you fearful and doubtful of what is currently going on in your life. Good luck, Goofy. I hope you can find some peace about the situation. It's hard but I know you can do it.
