Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub I just returned from a quick visit to MK. Funny how I carry different LP thoughts as I wandered around all the Lands. One of my thoughts was of you(DWB) in Epcot as I toured the World and realized I should take a trip to one of these foreign countries. Then I wondered if every place was crowded now. Then when I was having a Blast on the Carousel of Progress,PeopleMover,AstroOrbit,Haunted Mansion during the last hour of opening I wished you would return and enjoy yourself with your family. I even ran into Doobie and Rebekah and Gideon for a fun surprise and got to introduce myself! I know I have been critical and disheartened just as much as many on these boards. You can still have fun. I overheard lots of families talking to strangers around them and had fun "meeting" lots of others. Everybody was having fun even as they acknowledged the insane crowds etc. So for those of you that have been away from Disney for over 2 years I would like to invite you all back. It can be like the real world, now, somethings are amazing and some things are disappointing. Sorry but calling MK and HS a dump just hurt my heart for one moment.
Originally Posted By brotherdave Dave, I've always enjoyed your points of view, especially all of your reports on the European parks outside of Disney. I may not totally agree with all of your viewpoints of WDW as I will always enjoy the resort, but some of your observations of things that need improvement are spot on. Please keep posting. Maybe someday WDW will once again surprise you and make you want to return someday...
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Mine too MMC, hence why I want Disney to do something about it. Next month we are taking a journey, one where we will drive from England to Disneyland Paris (where we can ride suprior versions of Big Thunder, Phantom Manor, Pirates of the Caribbean (with no Jack Sparrow thank goodness), IASW, Space Mountain, as well as similar versions of Star Tours, Capt Eo, RNR Coaster, Moteurs Action, ToT, Tram Tour, Animation, and loads of other unique attractions) where we will stay a week in a Marriott 2 bedroom villa (which is closer to DLP than Epcot is to the MK): <a href="http://www.marriott.co.uk/hotels/travel/pardp-marriotts-village-dlle-de-france/" target="_blank">http://www.marriott.co.uk/hote...-france/</a> One day we will take time out to go into Paris (less than the time it took us to get from AKL to the MK) to cruise the Seine, and go to the Louvre. Then when we leave Paris, we will drive through the Champagne Wineries to have lunch in Metz, and then go to Medieval Strasbourg for the night, where they also have a light railway that looks like a monorail (we are going to be contemporary and stay at the Holiday Inn in a mini suite). After exploring the city, we will then go to Europa Park. Think Busch Gardens meets Epcot, staying in the 4+* Hotel Colloseo which has it's own fountain light show, not quite World of Color, but still cool: <a href="http://resort.europapark.de/lang-en/Theme-Hotels-Guesthouse/Hotel-Colosseo/c583.html" target="_blank">http://resort.europapark.de/la...583.html</a> We will spend 3 nights there, before going down to Freiburg and then exploring the Black Forest, spending the night in the Crowne Plaza Heidelberg. The next day we will travel through roman Worms, through the Rhineland up to Ellenz on the Moselle, staying in a 16th Century Wien Kelter: <a href="http://www.moselholiday.com/" target="_blank">http://www.moselholiday.com/</a> While there we will visit Roman Trier, where the 2nd century Roman gates and many other building still stand. We will go to the medieval castle Burg Elz and take a cruise on the Rhine, as well as wine tasting in the region (kids too). When we leave, we will go to Cologne and visit the medieval cathedral, which for several hundered years was the tallest building in the world (until the Eifel Tower was built). We wil stay that night in the Chinese themed Ling Bao at Phantasialand before we go into the park: <a href="http://www.phantasialand.de/eng/Hotels/Hotel-LING-BAO" target="_blank">http://www.phantasialand.de/en...LING-BAO</a> We will then head to Brussels (Crowne Plaza) in Belgium for the night and while there visit the world heritage buildings including the Atonium and the European model village. then it is a night in Gent (cheaping out at the Holiday Inn Express), before returning to France and then England the next day. The cost of fuel, accommodation and admission for this 3 weeks is still less than a 10 day stay in Wilderness Lodge for us. After so many disappointments last time, I await to hear improvements for our return. But the poor version of F! is on only twice a week, maintenance still sounds like it is an issue, and dining reservations getting harder and harder, I think I would rather save some money, or go to California, and once it is on it's feet, Tokyo. Once the expansion is done in HKDL, that calls to me. Florida? The main reason for us to consider it is to see friends, although I think my kids are nearly old enough to appreciate the Kennedy Space Centre. They are still that little bit too young for USO. And we love Sea World, but we can go to the one in San Diego (along with the amazing ZOO - though we have 2 world class zoos within a 30 mile radius of my house). WDW has some overpriced fun hotels, some good waterparks (though the one at Alton Towers here in the UK is nearly as good), DAK and Epcot. I could not care less if I stepped into the other two parks as they are not even close to the quality of their cousins around the globe IMHO. WDW is too big, poorly maintained, too humid for my tastes. We had an amazing time in 2000. I am hoping we would in the future (just as Disneyland was in the toilet before it's 50th refurb), but now my kids are getting to the age where we can really travel. My daughter wants to go to China. My son wants to go to Africa and Japan. They are on the list. My daughter is 5. she has been to DL once, WDW once, DLP about a dozen times, and all over England, Scotland, Wales, France, Belgium, and Spain. This year we add Germany (maybe Switzerland and Luxemburg), more of Belgium and the Netherlands to her list. I have been to 5 dozen or so countries and am keen to see more. But no matter where we travel, if it is a family, we have a good time. And that is all that matters. And I am glad you had a good time yesterday. But I want WDW to offer the quality of other resorts in the Disney empire. I also want our British Lpers to try the disney resorts they have not been to, as I think they are missing out. But if I were an East Coaster, I can totally understand the appeal of WDW. It used to appeal to me. I wish it still did. But the cuts by management and focus on toons are too much for me.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>I may not totally agree with all of your viewpoints of WDW as I will always enjoy the resort, but some of your observations of things that need improvement are spot on<<< We have fun at WDW, and I really enjoyed the video of the guy walking around Epcot posted on here. But it is disappointing. Please let me qualify my dump status. Of course it is not a dump in it's own right, but compared to the Disney bar, MK and DHS were our last visit. Every AA attraction we rode had noticably broken AA's. There was no real live entertainment. As we sat on the curb waiting for the parade on Main Street, there was black scum on the curbs all around the hubs. Where there used to be flowers (and still are at DL and DLP) it was mulch. If an attraction is at WDW and another Disney park around the globe, WDW has the weakest version (with the exception of maybe Splash Mountain, Tower of Terror - though I prefer it without the 5D room, and maybe the jungle cruise - though their skippers are not as entertaining as the want to be actors of LA. Fantasyland and Toontown fair were aweful compared to DLP and DL - hopefully the FLE will address this, but I fear not fully. The dining in the MK is poor, and they run a tired old parade that wasn;'t even very good when it debuted 10 years ago. Don't get me started on the mall called Main Street. Or how much of outside of the park you can see in it. Yes, I love Liberty Square, Country Bear Jamboree, CoP, the People mover and the pyro of Wishes (though not the soundtrack). But I do not love those things more than DLP or DL. So maybe dump is a bad choice of words. More, a much lesser experience. As for DHS, hmmmm, I like Hollywood Bvd. (although many of the lights were burnt out last time we were there - pluto had no tail at all, let alone a wagging one). I actually like the GMR - though it needs a refurb. And there are three excellent restaurants as well as one man's dream. But for me, that is it. I prefer the RNRC, TOT, Tram Tour,Motors action and Animation Experience at WDSP. And with wonderful attractions like Cinemagique, Animagique, Crush Coaster, Stitch Live, and Armageddon, I prefer the unique attractions of WDSP to the unique ones of DHS (except Osborne Lights, they are pretty spectacular). And DCA is better than DHS or WDSP IMHO and has some of the best of WDW in there. DHS feels like a mess, very tired, and the main reason I like to go there besides dining are the streetmousphere and Mulch, Sweat and Sheers. Kind of sad really. Yes, I think if I were local, a long weekend at Boarwalk going to EPCOT and DAK are cool. But given the fact that now it does not cost much more to go to the real Africa or Asia, and is fact cheaper to tour Europe. That is our agenda. Once the kids are old enough for KSC, USO and Discoverycove, we will be back. WDW will be some excursions rather than the focus. So sad.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo FWIW, it would not be hard for WDW to win me back though. That is the annoying part. Improve maintenance, bring back the live entertainment that used to be in every pavillion of Epcot and DAK, and sort out the transport, and I would probably start to enjoy it more again.
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub Truly enjoy you always Dave and love to know you as an outstanding husband and father and world traveler.And know I will meet your family someday. (I sadly have many of those thoughts and feelings about DL also)And really am tired of all the construction walls.Not to start another complaint especially about future new surprises but in the "old days" Didn't they deconstruct one thing at a time? And complete that project before starting another?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I think WDW has substantially improved since your last visit... at least on the cleanliness and maintenance issues. Some things will never change... will WDW Pirates ever be as good as that at DL? No... it is what it is. No one is going to rip it out and rebuild it. But it is STILL a mighty fine attraction. Even though some individual attractions at WDW may not be as good as the similar attraction elsewhere, taken as a whole WDW is still a wonderful Disney resort. The combination of Epcot and Animal Kingdom makes up for some attractions being marginally less enjoyable than their counterparts in other parks. As for touring Europe and visiting the San Diego Zoo, you are comparing apples and rocks (thanks to the LP'er who first used that). That is like saying a visit to Washington DC is a more comprehensive and meaningful experience than visiting Liberty Square and the American Pavilion at Epcot. Well DUH... OF COURSE it is! But Washington DC is not a Theme Park, and neither is the San Diego Zoo (at least it wasn't last time I was there).
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Lol - true. I am just stating the case for me roadtrip. If I lived where you do, chances are I would give WDW more of a pass. But I am very pleased to hear things have improved on the maintenance stakes. VERY pleased. And I agree. To me Epcot and DAK are the main reasons to go to WDW. They are great parks. And no one can doubt Epcot has a great vibe (if only we could get rid of the toons aspect ;-) I do have to say, the work under Eisner and Wing Chao was amazing at WDW. When they opened, every single new deluxe was amazing, and the dining options were sublime. Maybe that is also a big part of the issue for me, the cuts have really started to show. I am sorry, the towels, linens and service should not be the same at a deluxe as they are at the All Stars. MMC - sadly all the Disney parks are suffering under Iger. DLP was rotting away as well. Thankfully they are sorting out the castle now in time for the 20th, and the Pirate Ship in Adventureland is slated for replacement.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Oh and Roadtrip, it is not apples and rocks from a monetary and value aspect for us living 3000 miles away from WDW, unless you are calling WDW the rock ;-)
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub As long as we are defending WDW I have said this before and I will repeat it whenever I can. I agree DL Fantasmic is better in some ways BUT the older version of the dragon is still my favorite and that can only be seen at WDW/HS. The new version at DL reminds me of an inflatable Macy's parade float. WDW is still menacing to Mickey and the crowd as it unfolds the majestic wings and lightening flashes its power and forewarning to Mickey. Beware of my power at WDW at DL hey I am bigger than you scare. ALso luv to see Steamboat Willie in the authentic version of the cartoon tugboat from the black and white original cartoon. ANd I am glad Pocahontas has some showtime but obviously Peter Pan wins that scorepoint! I actually saw Fantasmic 2 times in 5night stay at WDW last weekend. LOVE that dragon!
Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1 "But as I've gotten older and taken a family, I really enjoy the vacation feel, pace, and space of WDW" Good luck with that once you have to start planning six months in advance your attractions, character M&Gs and toilet stops. Hope you enjoy the leisurely pace then!!!
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<ALso luv to see Steamboat Willie in the authentic version of the cartoon tugboat from the black and white original cartoon.>> If that boat didn't look bad I'd agree. But it does, so the actual steamer wins there. Also, WDW's F! is in dire need of a TON of love. It's falling apart.
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub After the last long weekend trip...I can not wait for PrePLanned FastPasses. I will even volunteer myself for my upcoming trip in May. FASTPASS is out of order needs a new improved version FAST as in Pronto. You could not get a FP anywhere after Noon or 10a.m. and single rider lines SLOW. Since they choose to shutter some of the FP machines now WHY not just get rid of them all? ANd allowing the chaperones to take over a machine to fastpass their entire group is aggravating. I stood behind a woman that I assumed was one person for a family. That was one big family lady!
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub I just choose to use my imagination along with some luv. It also works on EE when the Yeti is tearing the track apart(as we switch from backwards to front)Oh well...
Originally Posted By DyGDisney MK's Fantasyland was in a state of chaos when we visited, I really want to go back and see how it turned out! My biggest wow was the Winnie the Pooh queue. It was a plywood half wall painted blue! But I know that was because of the construction. IASW was down, and the lines for Snow White were SO long we didn't ride. Weird cause DL's Snow White rarely has a line! I loved that Peter Pan had FP, however it was not near as good a version as the one at DL, so we didn't enjoy it much. I would say a lot of the rides at DL are better than the same ride at WDW, but WDW is a fun "resort" vacation. I agree with RoadTrip about DAK, and while I WISH we could travel the world and visit all the countries in EPCOT, the EPCOT version was quite enjoyable for us!
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub Yeah I was also wishing I could travel the Worlds for real and thinking about the countries that are not represented.
Originally Posted By Christi22222 >>Good luck with that once you have to start planning six months in advance your attractions, character M&Gs and toilet stops. Hope you enjoy the leisurely pace then!!!<< Sadly, you are indeed correct. I am an off season visitor, and even before this over-planning insanity I was getting irritated with the ever increasing crowds and the dent it made in my vacation. I am OCD/type A by nature, but truly I hate the over planning when it comes to my WDW. I tried the DDP once in 2006, and while there were some aspects of it that were definitely fun, I detested planning my vacation around dinner reservations! No matter what you were doing, what momentum your group had, you had to stop and go eat when the bell dinged. Sheesh. Never again! A little serendipity goes a long way in my book.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Oh and Roadtrip, it is not apples and rocks from a monetary and value aspect for us living 3000 miles away from WDW, unless you are calling WDW the rock ;-)>> I certainly understand that. But of course in a comparison between Epcot and actually touring Europe, Epcot is going to come out second best! But I still really believe that WDW is overall the best Theme Park destination in the U.S. I’m sure it also helps that I always visit in January when the crowds are low and the weather is pleasant. I've decided to give up my WDW trip next year though so I can go on another Disney Cruise. Since that provides not only lodging but meals too, I think it is a better use of my vacation club points. So I certainly understand choosing a vacation that you think is a better value. Plus, after 25 or so visits the "new" has certainly worn off WDW, while I've only had the one cruise.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I don't blame you opting for the cruise, i think I would too. I have heard terrific things recently about the cruises and how they have stayed very true to the Disney experience. But again, in the last 11 years we have been to WDW twice and DL twice, and we would prefer DL. Maybe it is because we do non Disney things and we also tend to stay at the Grand Californian in Anaheim. Maybe that makes a big difference.
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub Sorry Dave you will be shocked with the new addition(DVC) and the boxed in feeling now.And the locals have taken on a whole new level of crowded and aggressive. I love that aspect of life tho because it does reflect reality. I am curious also as you are about other cultures and find WDW and DL gives some of us the opportunity to become familiar with the unfamiliar that might be intiminating upon initial exposure. I guess that sounds really ignorant but if a visit to WDW/Epcot or DL makes me want to understand and help that foreign family figure out where the bathroom is...I guess my life has been enriched and hopefully theirs also.
