Originally Posted By iamgoofy Funny haha...the funny haha was sarcasm. That statement "Iamgoofy, you better not stand in line for any character autographs... you can't be sure who is interacting with you or your kids under that furry costume." seems awfully immature. When have i ever stated that gays should not be allowed to work at or visit the park? I dont want to see any PDA by gay people at DL or anywhere else. I would have to assume that DL looks down on its employees for PDA whether hetero or gay.
Originally Posted By iamgoofy iamadisneygal “In addition, I'm sure you're aware that the original Bible has been translated many times and did not appear in English first. It was translated by people with an agenda, believe it or not.†Is the above statement a reference to Constantine? Since i am not well versed on the bible it is easier for me to ask someone who is more knowledgeable or to do a search on google about the topic opposed to reading the whole book of Leviticus. Some thoughts on your argument “The law (contained in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deutaronomy) can very logically be split into ceremonial law (like animal sacrifices, priestly ordinances, dietary laws) which has been rendered fulfilled by Christ and no longer required. There is also the moral law, and civil law. Read on in Leviticus and read about having to repay your brother if you kill his goat, etc etc. Christians are not picking and choosing which laws to abide by. There is a rational and logical division of the law. Just because dietary laws and ritual cleanliness laws are no longer requirements for the Christian who is no longer under the condemnation of the Law do not mean the world is free from the moral and civil law.†Hopefully that will help you iamadisneygal. I took that quote from this site <a href="http://www.city-data.com/forum/religion-philosophy/76663-where-bible-does-say-being-gay.html" target="_blank">http://www.city-data.com/forum /religion-philosophy/76663-where-bible-does-say-being-gay.html</a> where they are discussing a very similar topic to the one here. They also seem to be more in agreement with me then the most or you here. Here is another site <a href="http://www.gotquestions.org/homosexuality-Bible.html" target="_blank">http://www.gotquestions.org/ho mosexuality-Bible.html</a> in rebut of your post The Bible consistently tells us that homosexual activity is a sin (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). Romans 1:26-27 teaches specifically that homosexuality is a result of denying and disobeying God. When a person continues in sin and disbelief, the Bible tells us that God “gives them over†to even more wicked and depraved sin in order to show them the futility and hopelessness of life apart from God. 1 Corinthians 6:9 proclaims that homosexual “offenders†will not inherit the kingdom of God. God does not create a person with homosexual desires. The Bible tells us that a person becomes a homosexual because of sin (Romans 1:24-27), and ultimately because of their own choice. A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins. That does not excuse the person choosing to sin by giving into their sinful desires. If a person is born with a greater susceptibility to anger / rage, does that make it right for then to give into those desires? Of course not! The same is true for homosexuality. However, the Bible does not describe homosexuality as a “greater†sin than any other. All sin is offensive to God. Homosexuality is just one of the many things listed in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that will keep a person from the kingdom of God. According to the Bible, God’s forgiveness is just as available to a homosexual as it is to an adulterer, idol worshipper, murderer, thief, etc. God also promises the strength for victory over sin, including homosexuality, to all those who will believe in Jesus Christ for their salvation (1 Corinthians 6:11; 2 Corinthians 5:17).
Originally Posted By knightnfrees <<<What's DL?>>> <<It's a park where a lot of gays and lesbians like to work and play.>> I thought that was Sesame Street!
Originally Posted By danyoung iamgoofy, I said it before and I'll say it again - quoting the Bible has absolutely NO sway on a discussion like this. You'll find that most people will either disbelieve your source outright or say that times have changed and the statements in the Bible have no meaning. You're not making a very good argument by parroting what was said 2000 years ago. Times have indeed changed.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss This is why what he says about the bible has no meaning. I quote post #57: <<Gay is an abomination to God. Not sure I believe in God but the two contradict each other as stated in the bible.>>
Originally Posted By Dabob2 It may have no bearing on the discussion of Gay Day per se, but as a gay Christian, I'm happy to do my part to (perhaps, slowly) educate someone like iamgoofy... <Christians are not picking and choosing which laws to abide by. There is a rational and logical division of the law. Just because dietary laws and ritual cleanliness laws are no longer requirements for the Christian who is no longer under the condemnation of the Law do not mean the world is free from the moral and civil law.> You should definitely check that second link I provided before, and click on the Leviticus passage. It points out that the word used there about men lying with men, usually translated as "abomination" is the SAME word (in Hebrew) used to desribe eating shellfish, also commonly translated at "abomination." I believe the Hebrew word is "zi'mah" (or something close) and it means ritual uncleanliness. The very things that are no longer requirements for Christians. The Hebrew word used to describe things that violate the moral law is a different word. Check it out. <God does not create a person with homosexual desires. > That simply makes no sense based on the rest of nature. God obviously makes swans, giraffes, buffalo, etc. with homosexual desires, as it has been observed in all cases. Swans mate for life, and there have been many cases observed of male swan pairs who don't just have sex, but nest together year after year after year. It has also been observed in every primate species - that would include us.
Originally Posted By iamgoofy Dabob2 What do you mean educate people like me? The only way my mind will ever change on whether being gay is right or wrong is when two men or two women can lay down together and conceive a baby together without outside help. I dont see that ever happening. You see sex while enjoyable is not a necessity of life as drugs and alcohol while enjoyable are not a necessity of life to someone born with a disposition to use drugs or alcohol. Funny how you cite a website with an agenda. I am conservative both politically and by nature so you are trying to convince the wrong person especially by pointing to the site you did. It clearly has a pro homosexual agenda. Hey dabob I believe you have the right to do what ever you want in your own bedroom I just don’t want to see it. Just like a drug addict has the right to drugs in the privacy of their own home. I don’t want to see that either. If you are a Christian which I have never proclaimed to be in any post I have made but I did go to church for many years and have a pretty good idea of what is believed. As a child I was taught that God takes care of the righteous countrys of the world and as a country decays in its morality then god will no longer tend favor to that country. So lets see what happens to this country if homosexuals ever have the right to wed an institution with its basis in religion. If that ever happens and our country goes down the crapper it will definitely wake me up as far as being religious.
Originally Posted By danyoung >The only way my mind will ever change on whether being gay is right or wrong is when two men or two women can lay down together and conceive a baby together without outside help.< For the life of me I just can't understand why this is an issue with you. While procreation is a necessary part of any species, it is not a critical part of companionship. By your standard, a man and a woman who can't conceive are in some way doing something improper. It just seems to me that you're looking for some reason to NOT accept the gay lifestyle. Look, I was raised in a conservative church family (Dad was a minister), and I grew up with all the same predjudices that a lot of people have. Then I got out in the real world and had to make some decisions for myself. Was I going to keep being freaked out by something that I was always taught is wrong, or was I going to grow up and accept that some people do things differently from the way I do them? I'll admit that I'm still not comfortable seeing two guys displaying affection, as I've just not been around it that much. But intellectually I acknowledge their right to be happy, same as me.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "So lets see what happens to this country if homosexuals ever have the right to wed an institution with its basis in religion. If that ever happens and our country goes down the crapper it will definitely wake me up as far as being religious." The more you post the more you unwittingly portray yourself as somewhat unstable. We have such a thing as a Constitution and equal protection under the laws. There will come a day when gays are no longer discriminated against and will be free to marry the person of their choice, the same right you presumably possess. Allowing gays to marry will in no way, shape or form alter or harm a heterosexual marriage, unless that marriage was already in trouble. Moreover, averring that marriage exists merely so others can procreate is an archaic notion that was never in style. My wife and I were unable to have children. Does that mean I never should have married? Should we have had sex out of wedlock and tried to get pregnant to make sure we could reproduce before we got married? You're entitled to your views, but much like the gays you detest, you might want to keep them in the closet as well.
Originally Posted By danyoung >You're entitled to your views, but much like the gays you detest, you might want to keep them in the closet as well.< I was right there with you until your final statement. goofy has the same right to an opinion as the rest of us. I personally am tickled pink that this thread has lasted 230 posts with only a couple moderator blasts. Maybe 5 years ago this thread would have gone totally hostile after about 30 posts. So kudos to us all for being able to rationally discuss a hot topic.
Originally Posted By mele It always strikes me as funny how people who emphatically say they are "100% hetero, damn it!" and then turn around and complain about gay people "choosing" their sexuality. True, there are bisexual people who feel their sexuality is fluid and are intimate with both sexes. But the vast majority of people feel very sure of their own sexuality. (Of course, the teenage years are confusing for everyone but no one literally sits down and PICKS a sex to be attracted to. It's not like picking a college.) Chances are that if you have always known your own sexuality, there are other people who are just as sure about their own. For most people, it's something that comes naturally to them. If you want people to respect the fact that you've always known you were straight, then you need to respect their beliefs that they are bisexual or homosexual. To assume that only heterosexuals KNOW and homosexuals are just floating along, ambiguously asexual until they decide to "try" homosexuality on a whim is naive and condescending. (Unless that is how you chose to be hetero, iamgoofy? Was it like a game of Pin The Tail On The Donkey for you?) If you want people to respect you, you've got respect them. The Golden Rule is a part of nearly every religion for a reason. It trumps everything else.
Originally Posted By ncnike7 Objection your honor. You can't rationalize homosexuality using animal instinct and behavior. There are many animals that eat their young. It is natural, but that does not mean that it is natural for humans! You can make any other argument you want, but justifying human homosexuality based on animal behavior is just not cutting it.
Originally Posted By TALL Disney Guy So? Some animals have hunting instincts, so do people. Some have nesting instincts, so do people. Some animals engage in dance and mating rituals, so do people. This could be an endless type of argument, lol. Sexuality would be a much quieter issue if we all walked around naked. If you wanna see what sexuality is like, just hold pictures of naked women and men in front of people. Watch the guys---whatever makes their manhood stiffen up, that's pretty much the orientation they are. Whatever people's sexuality, it's not what's in your head that chooses attraction---it's what's between your legs that's drawn to it. ;-)
Originally Posted By knightnfrees <<Whatever people's sexuality, it's not what's in your head that chooses attraction---it's what's between your legs that's drawn to it. ;-)>> Use your head brings on a totally new meaning. But, I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you, TDG on that point. Orientation is like those Mabeline commercials..."Maybe she's (or he's) born with it." Humans are born with their sexual orientation. It's not until they reach an age where they are old enough to fully discover which direction they are going. TDG, I think certain appendages work in unison with the brain. The brain is the starter and the netherlands is the key.
Originally Posted By ncnike7 "whatever makes their manhood stiffen up, that's pretty much the orientation they are." Not neccesarily. Rape victims sometimes report being arroused during the attack. Does that mean that on some level they enjoyed being raped? "Some animals have hunting instincts, so do people." Yes, and when people start hunting people, we put them in prison, hopefuly. And I think that people hunting animals isn't very nice either. Oh and I hate it on PBS when the lions eat the zebras. Gets me everytime.
Originally Posted By TALL Disney Guy <Humans are born with their sexual orientation. It's not until they reach an age where they are old enough to fully discover which direction they are going. TDG, I think certain appendages work in unison with the brain. The brain is the starter and the netherlands is the key.> Oh I know, I was just agreeing with those who say it's not a mental choice like deciding what you want for supper. lol <Rape victims sometimes report being arroused during the attack. Does that mean that on some level they enjoyed being raped?> See? That's how complex humans are...nothing is black and white. I've never done any research on that, so I won't comment on it.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Dabob2 What do you mean educate people like me? > I mean because you put in your previous post the demonstrably wrong assertion that Leviticus differentiates between sins that are ritually unclean but later okayed for Christians (true) and others that are considered moral sins, and that homosexuality falls into the latter camp. That is false. It falls into the former camp, as the Hebrew word used to describe it in Leviticus is the one used to describe things that are ritually unclean, but NOT things that are morally wrong. This is a simple fact that you were not aware of, and you COULD be educated if you took the opportunity to learn something new. However... <The only way my mind will ever change on whether being gay is right or wrong is when two men or two women can lay down together and conceive a baby together without outside help.> ...it's clear that you don't want your mind to change, ever. As others have pointed out, procreation is great, but those who can't, or who could but don't, are not "wrong." Nor is it unnatural. Why would God create a species with one fertile female among thousands, and all the other females sterile? I don't know, but that's how bees and ants are. Are the non-procreative bees and ants "useless?" Of course not. That's the way God created that species. Why did God create gay giraffes or swans or chimps? I don't know, but he did. In bonobos, gay sex, especially among females, seems to have distinct social functions in keeping the larger group peaceful and cooperative. Why did God create a certain percentage of humans gay? I don't know, but He did. <Funny how you cite a website with an agenda.> As if yours didn't? Mine, however, had the advantage of being correct, while yours simply got Leviticus wrong (see above). < I am conservative both politically and by nature so you are trying to convince the wrong person especially by pointing to the site you did. > We've already established that you're not interested in opening your mind to other ideas. <Hey dabob I believe you have the right to do what ever you want in your own bedroom I just don’t want to see it. Just like a drug addict has the right to drugs in the privacy of their own home. I don’t want to see that either.> Well then we have no problem, I guess. (Psssst... you were never actually invited into my bedroom). <If you are a Christian which I have never proclaimed to be in any post I have made but I did go to church for many years and have a pretty good idea of what is believed.> Perhaps not as good as you think, as we've seen. As a gay man AND a Christian whose faith is important to me, I can pretty much guarantee I've had to look into this a lot deeper than you ever have. <As a child I was taught that God takes care of the righteous countrys of the world and as a country decays in its morality then god will no longer tend favor to that country. So lets see what happens to this country if homosexuals ever have the right to wed an institution with its basis in religion. If that ever happens and our country goes down the crapper it will definitely wake me up as far as being religious. > The last I checked, Canada, Spain, Belgium, etc. had not fallen into the ocean.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Objection your honor. You can't rationalize homosexuality using animal instinct and behavior. There are many animals that eat their young. It is natural, but that does not mean that it is natural for humans!> That is correct. But the point was not that everything animals do is therefore natural for humans to do, but that it was ridiculous to claim that homosexuality was "unnatural" or a "choice," considering that it is observed all over nature, and those animals are presumably acting on their own natural instincts.
