Originally Posted By skinnerbox Educated guess here: the leak was done by a competing project team? If this is what Avatarland will be comprised of, count me out as well. Soarin' is a fun ride but one is enough. This is not a technology I want to see cloned. It would be better to have something similar to Forbidden Journey's KUKA tech but Burbank is risk adverse to R&D expenditures, the kind that put WED/WDI on the map. Glendale could roll their own, as was rumored long ago for an Incredibles attraction, but the intestinal fortitude simply doesn't exist anymore. Given the success of WWoHP, this attempt at a 'Potter swatter' is laughable. If Disney cannot deliver Avatar with the same "Wow!" factor that Forbidden Journey has created, they should just give up now. It's an embarrassment.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> It's hard to say. If it was intentional, I dunno how successful it's been. People are talking, but they seem to be talking about how bad it is. << Starting to sound like the original FLE plans when people said, "Not enough," and they added Mine Train.
Originally Posted By leobloom I have to think that if this is Soarin'-based technology, they must be improving it to make it more impressive. Just can't believe Cameron would sign off on what is basically an old ride system. I mean if this turns out to be little more than a Soarin' version of Pandora, then I'll be disappointed. Even T23D was more cutting-edge than that.
Originally Posted By Blueusion Been to WDW over 20 times. Avatar is illrevelant. Unless Disney builld a Star Wars land at DHS . I will be spending my money at Universal Studios. I used to love going to WDW but I havent been in over 5 yrs. WDW is boring and there are more greater Theme parks to go to. I went to Ceder Point in 2004 and it cost less for a 2 day ticket than a 1 day at Disney. Although it not considered a Theme Park per say. I had the best time there! We just had fun for those 2 day. Yea I may be old. But Disney has just become illrevelant to me. Nothing new ever just a new slogan every year. I live 90 mins from WDW and I would rather go to Universal or Sea World or go see the Kennedy Space Center again. It's sad That that WDW has become illrevelant to me. I went the 1st time in 1982 and got to see Epcot being built and went back in 1985 and I was so impressed at what was possiable. Maybe I'm jaded but until they quit with the Princess thing and I was appalled to see little girls run around in the over priced crap that Disney sell for momma to relive her childhood and have her daughter look like a overpriced Jon Benet Ramsey. I have a spent a lot of money at Disney and I have stayed at their so called resorts. I went to Hawaii this year for 8 days round trip airfare for 2 and rental car for all those day and had a helicopter ride for 2 for a total of $4000.00 at a 5 star Marriott resort. Not per person but total cost and it was right next to Disney Aulani. Which I will admit was a nice building but cold as far as the theme and the people working there. This was the best vacaction I ever had. Didn't have to worry about long ride lines or any of the crap you have to deal with at Disney. And yes I bought into the Marriott Vacaction club. Have a full suite over looking the property and the pacific ocean and paid far less than Disney overpriced hotel. Oh sorry they were priced right but someone screwed up and the screwed the orginal people that bought in . Disney was a great brand and was the epitomy of quality yrs ago but now. They have run out of imigination and not adding new and exciting rides at there theme parks is one of the reason others are going to UNIVERSAL STUDIOS IN ORLANDO. And no I havent seen any Harry Potter Movies. It is just more fun there
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<I have to think that if this is Soarin'-based technology, they must be improving it to make it more impressive. Just can't believe Cameron would sign off on what is basically an old ride system.>> I assume it will be more impressive. But how much more impressive can you make the setup? That's my question. You make it more extreme, and you open the door to people puking on the screen. I dunno. It's a weird choice.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> But how much more impressive can you make the setup? That's my question. You make it more extreme, and you open the door to people puking on the screen. << I know what you mean. You don't want to turn Soarin' into Mission: Space. That's a whole 'nother set of problems. I was hoping they'd modify the system to be more mobile, like Potter. Really wish/hope the bike coaster is still in play, though it sounds like it isn't. That would've been a new ride system in Orlando and would've shown Disney offering a new kind of experience -- which is one of the reasons Potter and Spidey were such a smash. People had never experienced anything like them before.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Does one building with two rides constitute a "land"?" Same exact thing I was thinking. The schematics at the link don't tell me diddly about the overall scope of this project. It's now wonder Hokie is yawning. There's not enough information here to even guess what this new land will encompass.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<Same exact thing I was thinking. The schematics at the link don't tell me diddly about the overall scope of this project. It's now wonder Hokie is yawning. There's not enough information here to even guess what this new land will encompass.>> There's more to the documents than what's been shown. But these are the two attractions. The rest will be a dining location and a shopping area.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "But these are the two attractions. The rest will be a dining location and a shopping area." That still tells me nothing about what the area will be like as a visitor. You could use the same information to describe New Orleans Square at Disneyland. I need more details before passing judgement.
Originally Posted By u k fan I'm with Hans. Nothing that has been said or shown tells me anything other than what the nuts and bolts will be. Sure it sounds a little light for a whole land, but will it make me go "wow". That's how I'll measure if it's worked for me!!!
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper WARNING The following is very long. But I read it on WDWMagic, and it's the best explanation of the plans. <<I'm going to chime in again, if for no other reason than to clear up a few of the misnomers and misconceptions being batted around. Lee and others have done a nice job giving yes and no answers to specific details, but since these drawings have obviously saturated the web already, there are hundreds or thousands of people interpreting them improperly. I'm not boasting, but since I draft, design and build commercial buildings for a living, I feel like topics like this are my one and only time to shine and call myself an "expert". I am by no means an insider. I just know exactly what I'm looking at when I see collections of documents like the ones people are seeing today. Speaking of these drawings, the few sheets being posted on the web seem to have been acquired from sources completely separate from the venue through which my copy was delivered. Also, many of those out on the web have been photoshopped, had watermarks whited out, and are very low resolution. The version I have on my computer is full-sized, original PDF files. The Architectural Plans are 48" wide by 36" tall blueprints - and I just printed a full size copy on our office plotter today. Those little color-coded plans are from an 8.5x11 document that the mechanical engineer produced, showing how many air conditioning units would be needed for the project. Those colored areas are actually HVAC zones, and mean nothing else. And the plans that those colors have been placed on are not exactly identical to the working drawings, but they do imply portions of the ride system, where the architectural ones do not. There is also a complete set of foundation and structural steel drawings. There are massive foundations with 80' deep auger-cast piles under each of the four ride apparatuses. This tells me that the ride system is very similar to soarin, in that there is a massive undercarriage that holds up what will likely be a moving set of seats. Whether it just tilts like Soarin, or is on a series of hydraulic cylinders like Star Tours - I don't know. There flat out is NOT enough detail on these plans, no matter what anyone on here says. Period. With this said, I would like to offer some bullet point facts (and inferences) that should clear up some of the questions, and bad information being circulated: As of this moment in time, the set of plans and narratives that contractors possess are limited only to this one large building, which contains what Disney is calling an E-Ticket and a C-Ticket. Those words are used throughout the entire set of documents. The C-Ticket APPEARS to be a boat ride, given the meandering course of the ride path as it comes into and leaves the northeast corner of the main building. The vehicles look like boats as well. Calling it a C-Ticket on the plans doesn't give me warm fuzzies. They couldn't do anything less than a Pirates type attraction (which I consider to have extensive theming), but I'm wondering if they'd use their new boat maneuvering patent which allows them to turn a boat and aim guests like an Omnimover does. That would make a lot of sense if they're taking you on a tour through Pandora. The E-Ticket has four isolated theaters, with four isolated ride systems. In no way, shape or form will guests move from one theater to another. They will operate exclusive of each other and there are four purely for the sake of crowd control and throughput. There is one queue that splits guests, via ramps, to one of 3 tiers of loading platforms in each theater. Very similar to soarin, except you board on 3 levels instead of one, and there are 4 theaters instead of 2. There are comments in the narratives that explain to the contractors that the following components of this land will exist, but have not yet been drawn: E-Ticket Retail, QSR, Area Retail, Area Restrooms, Conditioned Queue for C-Ticket. There is also a note in the narrative that the north face of the building will interface with rockscape. And given that the structural steel at the top of the 76' tall building is tapered inward, it becomes clear that this will resemble a mountain of some sort and will literally be covered in rockwork and other thematic elements. The C-Ticket boat ride is only shown in part (a very small part of what can be assumed to be a much longer boat ride). The rest of the ride will likely be under the exterior part of the mountain (north face of building), since guests for the E-Ticket climb a ramp (with a 1:13 slope - making the entire queue wheelchair accessible) and enter the main show building at the 3rd floor, 23' above ground level. The C-Ticket will have it's own queue, and the E-Ticket clearly has its own queue, and all theaters exit down stairways and usher guests back out a single exit point at the north face of the building. There is no cross connection between these two attractions. They are mutually exclusive, and one is not a pre-show for the other. Again, the ride system for the E-Ticket is not clear at all. In the Mechanical Narrative, seats can be identified, but quantities are indiscernible. It is 100% clear that each theater will have 3 tiers of seating, each 12' apart, vertically. It is likely that the carriage may in fact travel up and down, but all guests are looking forward at one arced screen, like in Soarin. The E-Ticket is most assuredly a 3D experience, simply because there are rooms on the floorplan labeled GLASSES STORAGE and GLASSES CLEANING. Kind of a dead giveaway. There are many ride control rooms, a control tower, and several Electrical Rooms on the lower BOH (Back of House) levels. If they're going to use a Jim Cameron produced film using his Morpho technology, they will indeed have the massive electrical and telecommunication infrastructure to operate it. This attraction/land will require a large Cast. There are multi-seat restrooms, a cast break room, and even a cast deployment room. The BOH floor in this building will likely be the home base for all Cast working this land. And to reiterate, what is shown on these plans could be for literally anything. It could become a Little Mermaid attraction. It could become Avatar. It could become a giant flight simulation movie putting the guest in the role of a butterfly. It could be for something none of us have even dreamed of. Perhaps even concepts from Beastly Kingdom. Regardless of the rumors, insider information, renderings, talks of Cameron being in Anaheim - these drawings have absolutely NO firm reference to or promise of an Avatar land. I can't make that more clear. These plans have been so carefully prepared that this facility could have any video plopped into the projectors with a new ride vehicle program - and it becomes anything. And a boat ride.....in an Animal Park.....could be ANYTHING. Everything I've said above is true and factual (except for my obvious editorials and assumptions, which I've called out). This is not opinion. This is fact based on my professional review of the plans, narratives, scopes of work, and other documents - as of this moment in time. Nothing has been filed with the drainage board. I don't believe any site development plans have been issued to anyone. All we know is that FotLK might move, and they flew one test balloon in the area where this would go. That's all we know, until Disney says otherwise, or they actually build it. If anyone would like additional clarifications, or if I missed one of the misnomers going around, feel free to reply (or better yet, PM me). I will not disclose how I obtained the drawings, but I will make note that the construction industry can be tight knit. Florida and Indiana and California may be worlds apart geographically, but not in the electronic world. The end. >>
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Count me out on Avatar also -- either really build something to compete with Potter, or build traditional fare that works in AK. A Soarin ride and boat ride will compete with nothing. If Disney is serious about competing with Potter ( and I don't believe they really are) - get on the phone now to either George Lucas or Stephen Jackson - as they control the two entities that could possibly match Potter -- especially long term if there are no more Potter movies ever. Build Middleearth here - resurrent the duelling dragons coasters from Beastly Kingdom - plenty of dark ride possibilities and a Prancing Pony eatery outside of the Shire. The Avatar franchise holds zero interest for me, and I am a self confessed Sci Fi Geek, I think Dr Who would be better and I think the audience here is too narrow for that.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt This remark from Hokie's excerpt sums it up perfectly: "And to reiterate, what is shown on these plans could be for literally anything. It could become a Little Mermaid attraction. It could become Avatar. It could become a giant flight simulation movie putting the guest in the role of a butterfly. It could be for something none of us have even dreamed of. Perhaps even concepts from Beastly Kingdom."
Originally Posted By leobloom Spirit said that the written description on the paperwork specifies the plans are for an attraction at DAK. Avatar's the only thing on DAK's plate. And the report is Cameron and WDI agreed to a basic design idea.
Originally Posted By Manfried I can hear Fitzgerald now. "I know, let's make it a simulator film experience, then we can go anywhere we want. You load in a mass Avatar experience, then suddenly are attacked by holdouts still wanting to exploit the planet." From the Fitzgerald playbook. 1. Plan simulator 2. Write standard script where everything seems normal then something goes terribly wrong and the riders either are involved in the rescue, or have to effect the rescue. 3. Happy ending, unload. 4. Exit through souvenir shop.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>Does one building with two rides constitute a "land"?<< Apparently it does at Islands of Adventure...
Originally Posted By DlandDug So... an obscure set of undated drawings for an unidentified set of possible attractions is released on the internet and within 24 hours people are confidently predicting that Disney's Avatar themed land is a dud. Noted.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip If Avatar doesn't work out they could perhaps go with Smurfs. They're blue too... Actually, I think Smurfs would have broader appeal.
Originally Posted By tashajilek "So... an obscure set of undated drawings for an unidentified set of possible attractions is released on the internet and within 24 hours people are confidently predicting that Disney's Avatar themed land is a dud. Noted." Seems to be the case lol. "If Avatar doesn't work out they could perhaps go with Smurfs. They're blue too... Actually, I think Smurfs would have broader appeal." Yuck!
