Originally Posted By oldkeywest Maybe the quality of Disney World has slipped over the years, however so has the quality of many other theme parks around the country. Here in St.Louis, at a major amusement park (Im not going to name any names, but I think y'all know what one) the quality of everything is horrible. Paint peeling, gum on almost every sidewalk and litter piling over the top of the trash can. We all expect perfection from WDW. I know it has been lacking, but look at the other parks. In baseball there is a stat called "Value over the replacement player" (AKA VORP). Look at Disney, and then look at the value of the other parks you can go to. Disney is still far ahead of the game.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo However, there was dirt, surly staff, family unfriendly attractions and poor maintenance/safety in amusement parks before Disneyland. Disneyland was built to be different and stand out from the crowd. Although it still does, does that mean we should allow them to be dragged down by the others' and public expectation - heck no.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Maybe the quality of Disney World has slipped over the years, however so has the quality of many other theme parks around the country. Here in St.Louis, at a major amusement park (Im not going to name any names, but I think y'all know what one) the quality of everything is horrible. Paint peeling, gum on almost every sidewalk and litter piling over the top of the trash can. We all expect perfection from WDW. I know it has been lacking, but look at the other parks. In baseball there is a stat called "Value over the replacement player" (AKA VORP). Look at Disney, and then look at the value of the other parks you can go to. Disney is still far ahead of the game. < But missing the point -- was the park by you ( and we have one here too outside of Chicago - ) ever in the same league as Disney ? No ...never. So why compare the 2. That is like saying ( and I'll pick a St Louis restaurant and hotel for you as my daugher goes to college there) - - shold Cunnetto's onthe Hill be compared to Burger King because they both serve food ? Or should the Adam's Mark be compared to motel 6 and live DOWN to their standards because they both house people. Saying it is okay for Disney to have slipped because they are still better than Six Flags just makes no sense tome. If Six Flags closed tomorrow I could care less...I want Disney to always be Disney and there is no reason they shouldnot be. But if people are willing to just accept slippage in customer service / maintenance / restaurant offerings etc - and do it willingly, you will get that unless you let them know that it is unacceptable.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 VORP doesn't exist for many of us fans as there is no replacement player for Disney...no one else is in the same league.. And to use the baseball analogy, as things gets worse, yes a .210 hitter is better than a .190 hitter but they both stink, so who would want either ?
Originally Posted By oldkeywest I agree with you 100% vbdad55. It is not right for Disney to slip, but in todays society, many people see it as the norm. I also wish Disney would not fall into the trap of laziness. I was just stating that while Disney is slipping, so is everything else in society. I wish we could go to Disney World and have a magical experience again, but that is hard to do in todays society.
Originally Posted By oldkeywest Also, that VORP stat is only good in my opinion while talking about our catcher, Yadier Molina. At the begining of the year when he was batting horrible, he was still the best defensive catcher in the league. So one of the writers on the post-dispatch brought out that stat and used it to calm the trade demand talks.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^^^^^^^ sorry, as a life long Cubs fan no sympathy for any Cardinal's problems.....(LOL! )
Originally Posted By vbdad55 < It is not right for Disney to slip, but in todays society, many people see it as the norm. I also wish Disney would not fall into the trap of laziness. I was just stating that while Disney is slipping, so is everything else in society.< While I totally understand what you are saying, it still is not acceptable..and the reason a lot of things slipping is because people are saying " well that's the wayit is everywhere" - kind of a vicious cycle..... but I can tell you I am thrilled with my car dealership - I go there because they are outstanding ( and having bought over 30 cars in the last 30 years I have a lot to judge against ) - I have never been to a Four Season's Hotel without being satisfied...so they get my biz...there are restaurants in and around Chicago ( and I will state the same for Cunetto's House of Pasta in St Louis ) - that the quality and service are outstanding at ( and all levels of cost not just expensive)- so they getmy business....I hold Disney to the same standard. They are capable of wowing us... and should. hat doesn't mean when you have a 50,000 person service industry workforce that all are going to be smiley and happy's CM's - I am realistic....but putting in shoddy replacements for attractions ( like the Pooh playground)- letting maintenance slip to where it is really noticeable....cutting menu items while systematically raising prices every year etc...no- not acceptable.
Originally Posted By demderedoseguys If any one in Disney management is reading this thread they must love the fact their master plan appears to be working-there are some people who are willing to accept mediocrity. WDW is not yet mediocre, but by accepting it we are giving the stamp of approval for it to continue. I hope the day does not come when I just stop going. Bad sports teams create a lot of empty seats. I'm curious to see how far down Disney will take it until those resorts have empty rooms.
Originally Posted By oldkeywest I agree that it is not acceptable. I would love to see major changes to the whole system. I was just saying that some people are accepting the downfall. My first trip was in 95, and it was the most magical one. Everything seemed perfect then. Great analogy to a sport team demderedoseguys. (vbdad55- your cubs got the best of us tonight lol)
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <(vbdad55- your cubs got the best of us tonight lol)< we always seem to play well against you - that's 5 wins in a row at Wrigley ( and won season series last year) - and we just took 2 of 3 from the Mets..it's the teams we were supposed to beat that just kill us ( 0 - 7 vs Padres and almost a bad against Marlins) - go figure. So when the fat lady sings you are in the playoffs and our team gets early tee times...this year will be no exception - sigh !
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <My first trip was in 95, and it was the most magical one. Everything seemed perfect then. < should have seen the mid to late 80's -- that is when the rep for catching trash literally before it hit the ground was in full force...might not have been reality but wasn't far from it.
Originally Posted By pixiedust1 <<And I still love Disney, but I will not give them a free pass if they do something>> <<Nor should you Dave, if you didn't care then it would be easy to do, but we really do care.ong, or let standards slip.>> Don't twist my words... ok.. I never said Disney World was a perfect place... they have their faults... but LP has become a Disney bashing board... how can you enjoy yourselves... you go there and come back here and complain just about everything.... I go there every month to get away from the real world and feel like a kid again.. what DO you go there for.. to walk around looking for the bad... I'm tired of all this silly whining... I don't see what you do so I say it does not exist... you say it does... but I leave Disney with a great feeling , I doubt you can say the same for about yourselves.. IMO ...
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Spirit of 74...You could use a course in manners yourself. Everyone of us, Pixie included, has the right to their opinion and the right to express it.>> That's right. And when they put their words or opinions in a public forum on a DISCUSSION board, they can expect that some people might disagree and express that. Pixie as is his/her habit entered the thread without anything to offer other than a 'Love WDW or Go To Uni' shot. <<In spite of the fact that you have appointed yourself the supreme observer of all things bad about Disney. That gets just as old as being an apologist, whatever that is.>> Please. Enough with the theatrics. I am not a 'supreme observer' ... I am someone with a very large wealth of knowledge about the history, workings and behind-the-scenes machinations that go on at WDW as well as WDI and Burbank. No, I'm not just a Disney fan who comes here to talk about how awesome Test Track is or how great the scrambled eggs are at Chef Mickey's. <<Pixie is correct. If it gets, in your opinion, unbearable, stop going. It IS that simple. As long as you continue to go no one, not Disney, not us, can take your stand very seriously.>> That's a crock of cowpoop. I love WDW. It's one of my favorite places to go. I just spent a wonderful week there. I'm also a shareholder -- and not an insignificant one share type. I also have friends that work for Disney and many that once did. I am in the media business myself. In other words, I have an interest. Rest assured, if it ever gets unbearable, I will stop going. I'll also work my damndest to see to it that the execs in charge of the place wind up working for WalMart. <<I am not saying that you are not correct. What I am saying is express your opinion and let other express theirs and make your own decisions for yourself. In this particular case you made Pixie's words come across sounding like a casual comment and you sounded like an obnoxious twit.>> Really? If the label fits ... <<I don't even care if I get banned from LP because this place is starting to become a broken record with the same people saying the same things over and over again. There are no real discussions anymore just dribble or mindless bickering. >> You seem to not want discussions. I would love to discuss many aspects of WDW past, present and future. But I don't wear blinders or grade Disney on a curve.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<It seems like Disney is trying very hard to become just above average, rather than the perfect place it used to be when I first started going 30 years ago.>> They've spent the better part of the past decade just trying to be another brand. That doesn't even make them above average. It makes them average. That's not the Disney I grew up with. That's not what I expect from it. There's no bold innovation anymore at all and it all starts with the people running the company.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros "I go there every month to get away from the real world and feel like a kid again" I don't get to go every month, but I still go for the same reason. To escape reality. And reality has been finding its way into the parks a little too much for my pleasure. Sure, there are lands and the entire World Showcase themed to "real" places, but it is a happy Disney vision of reality. When the reality becomes too much and there is no difference between WDW and a local park, then I will stop coming. But in this in between phase, coming from a long distance, as reality finds its way into the park, I am willing to wait longer between trips, and try new things in between. WDW just seems to be losing its addictive quality.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Don't twist my words... ok.. I never said Disney World was a perfect place... they have their faults... but LP has become a Disney bashing board... how can you enjoy yourselves... you go there and come back here and complain just about everything.... I go there every month to get away from the real world and feel like a kid again.. what DO you go there for.. to walk around looking for the bad... I'm tired of all this silly whining... I don't see what you do so I say it does not exist... you say it does... but I leave Disney with a great feeling , I doubt you can say the same for about yourselves.. IMO < nobody twisting your words at all- you are doing just fine explaining 'your opinion' - but that's all it is..you opinion and I have mine and other have theirs. It is not whining..although ironically, the complaining about complaining I see as whining. No one is taking away from your trips..yet in your paragraph above you say "I never said Disney World was a perfect place... they have their faults.." -- yet you close with "... I don't see what you do so I say it does not exist.." quoting you so there can be no more twisting of words... so it's not perfect,but yet you see nothing wrong like we do...doesn't compute. " I doubt you can say the same for about yourselves.." you doubt wrong - as if and when I stopped enjoying myself I would stop going. But I also do not go with sleep shades over my eyes..I do not look for anything wrong, but nor do I ignore it when it is there...
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<People peeing on the street ? Where in the world are these folks from ? the board of health needs to look into that.>> You think that's bad? I haven't stayed at a WDW resort in the past 5-10 years where the pool wasn't closed once a day or every other day as someone's kid either defacated or vomited in it. Oh, soooo magical. And I travel extensively and can honestly say I've NEVER had that experience anywhere else in the world. It is a uniquely Disney magical moment when you're all ready to spend a magical day by the WL pool (or Saratoga Springs on my most recent visit) only to have a 'brownout' close the pool. Of course, WDW is the only place I've ever gone and seen people take 3-4 months old babies into jacuzzis. I don't know if WDW is just attracting a lower element. I don't know if the $6 an hour CMs are afraid to tell someone who's paid $8,000 for a vacation -- or worse -- $30,000 for a DVC membership, that their child needs to have a swim diaper or that their child isn't allowed in the jacuzzi. I don't know if management has just told the front-line CMs that they'd rather have the pools closed than anger one guest. I really don't know. I do know that I see more trashy behavior at WDW now than I ever did. I'm sure that reflects society to a point, but, again, I've never seen a pool closed anywhere else on the planet that I've traveled to due this type of incident. One day they'll have a major health issue and then when they start paying out settlements, they might wake up and start enforcing basic commonsense health practices.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<While I totally understand what you are saying, it still is not acceptable..and the reason a lot of things slipping is because people are saying " well that's the wayit is everywhere" - kind of a vicious cycle.....>> Yes. It's the WalMarting of American society and it has affected every aspect of our lives over the past decade (and that's even leaving politics out of the mix). I get so upset that people are so apathetic whether we are talking about health care, outsourcing, ExxonMobil's absurd 'profit' or WDW. It's just this 'That's life. Want to order a pizza?' mentality. I don't care whether everyone else has also lowered their standards (likely due to the same tired consultants making billions by ruining companies). That is NO justification for accepting it from Disney. And I won't. <<but I can tell you I am thrilled with my car dealership - I go there because they are outstanding ( and having bought over 30 cars in the last 30 years I have a lot to judge against ) - I have never been to a Four Season's Hotel without being satisfied...so they get my biz...there are restaurants in and around Chicago ( and I will state the same for Cunetto's House of Pasta in St Louis ) - that the quality and service are outstanding at ( and all levels of cost not just expensive)- so they getmy business....I hold Disney to the same standard. They are capable of wowing us... and should. hat doesn't mean when you have a 50,000 person service industry workforce that all are going to be smiley and happy's CM's - I am realistic....but putting in shoddy replacements for attractions ( like the Pooh playground)- letting maintenance slip to where it is really noticeable....cutting menu items while systematically raising prices every year etc...no- not acceptable.>> No. It isn't. And, hopefully, Bob Iger is getting the message loud and clear. If not, we'll just have to turn up the volume.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip vbdad... It is always possible for WDW to regain its prior glory. Just look at where the Twins are now compared to where they were in May. ;-) Overall I look at the increase/decrease in various aspects of the WDW experience as a significant gain since our first trip in 1991. Some things, primarily cleanliness, have gone down. Other things have greatly improved. Better resorts... The Boardwalk, Wilderness Lodge and AK Lodge are all fantastic resorts. Dixie Landings (POR) is outstanding for a moderate. All of these resorts were opened since 1991. Animal Kingdom Park. While a bit sparse on attractions at opening, it has always been Disney's most fully realized park as far as theming goes. Now that it is gaining major attractions it is hard to beat. Yes, you think the Pooh Playground sucks. But since 1991 WDW has added: Splash Mountain The Twilight Zone Tower of Terror Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin Kilimanjaro Safaris Test Track Rock 'n' Roller Coaster Mission: SPACE "Mickey's PhilharMagic" Soarin' "Lights, Motors, Action! Extreme Stunt Show" Expedition Everest Not a bad lineup as far as I'm concerned. So are things at WDW perfect? No. They probably never were. But is WDW a significantly better vacation destination in 2006 than it was in 1991? Absolutely in my opinion -- no contest.
