Originally Posted By mele I'm not sure what that has to do with surviving a car crash. Ramblings, I guess.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "I'm not sure what that has to do with surviving a car crash. Ramblings, I guess." One thought leads to another. You just followed the path.
Originally Posted By planodisney While there is actually much evidence for believing in God and actually the Bible, you can't debate anyone into being a believer. Many people have closed off their minds to God. God actually gives us all a measure of faith. Some of us reject it again and again. It is hard to explain the faith that God actually gives us, but I know God to be more real than anything i can actually see. The faith that he gives those who are willing to believe is more powerful than sight. I wish all of you could and do experience this. he wants us ALL to have a relationship with him.
Originally Posted By mele <<I wish all of you could and do experience this. he wants us ALL to have a relationship with him.>> Except for the fact that some people HAVE tried that and it wasn't the answer for them. It's wonderful that you have something that gives you profound meaning. That was not my experience.
Originally Posted By Elderp "you can't debate anyone into being a believer." Amen to that, it is what it is. God has given us what he has given us. Just "enough," and not a bit more.
Originally Posted By planodisney It isn't about finding profound meaning mele. It also isn't about just trying to find something that "works." For me it is about truth,why we are here, and what we are supposed to do about it. It isn't about trying "religion," and it isn't about living by some robotic code . It is about having a personal relationship with God and living the way he wants us to live. We fail all of the time, but he understands our imperfections and is always faithful to forgive us. Over and over and over again. I truly believe that if given a hypothetical, life and death question about is there a god or not, virtually everyone would anser yes. No question about it. However, most of us are so comfortable with the secular lives that it is very hard to acknowledge a god who demands we change our ways. We have become so prideful that we don't need God.
Originally Posted By dshyates See, I think that if questioned, most people would say they don't know, but having faith makes them feel a lot better about not knowing. I on the other hand simply don't know. I know the Big Bang and evolution are real. And nothing of what the Christians say on the subject makes a lick of sense to me. No offense anyone, just calling it as I see it. So as far as I know there could be some supreme entity that started or not. I see no evidence of a supreme being other than simple existence itself, but I really don't know what to make of "EXISTENCE". I know I'm here. I know we're here. And we have some really cool pictures of out there. I see a bunch of people who are ALL screaming they are right, and we are on the brink of igniting the powder keg over it.
Originally Posted By planodisney Existance, time and space are unexplainable apart from being created. I believe in the Biblical account of Creation, but will not be shocked if I find out he used evolution to create everything. However, I simply find it ridiculous that it was all dumb luck. LAUGHABLE!!!!
Originally Posted By X-san So then who created the creator? By your theory, someone or something must have created god somehow. Since it is ridiculous and laughable that he just came about through dumb luck.
Originally Posted By dshyates So plano, you believe the whole shabang. Eternal afterlife, heaven/hell, judgement day?
Originally Posted By dshyates "However, I simply find it ridiculous that it was all dumb luck." As rediculous as its sounds, that theory COULD actually happen given the known universe. Unlike most of what is found in the Bible which is for the most part scientically impossible with out magical intervention. On that alone, I am forced to lean towards the laughably rediculous over the incredibly inplausible.
Originally Posted By Elderp "I know the Big Bang and evolution are real." You do? Scientists have been trying to prove those two things for years and there is no empirical proof. I will grant that there is circumstantial evidence but it isn't proof. "Who created the creator?" No one, he always has been there and always will. So have we. It is like saying who created the space you exist in. It has always been there. No one can create or destroy matter. You can change its form but that is it.
Originally Posted By dshyates "No one, he always has been there and always will." Why can't you say the Universe has always been there and always will be. It has no creator.
Originally Posted By dshyates Plus we KNOW evolution exists. Period. No ifs ands or buts about it. The only people who don't believe it refuse to accept it. The case for evolution is concrete. We know how thngs evolved. Since genome mapping has come about there really is no question about evolution. The science of evolution is about as mysterious as the magic of electricity. Now the theory for the Big Bang is circumstantial. But the preponderance of evidence supporting the theory is incontrovertible.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad I really wish some of the non-science folks would learn the difference between evolution and natural selection. No, there is still many problems with evolution. I actually believe that some form of natural selection has played a role for sure. But species don't evolve in an upward direction. There still is no missing link, still gaps in the fossil record. There is still plenty of debate within the scientific community. It's far from even coming close to being "fact". In fact most physicists (that whole Universe is in an eternal state of breaking down concept) are among the loudest voices in protest against evolution.
Originally Posted By mele Some people believe a missing link has been found: <a href="http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/04/0405_060405_fish_2.html" target="_blank">http://news.nationalgeographic...h_2.html</a> <a href="http://tiktaalik.uchicago.edu/" target="_blank">http://tiktaalik.uchicago.edu/</a> I find it kind of interesting that *some* people can believe the creation stories in the Bible as truth, yet don't want to believe evolution because we can't find every single fossil from (quite possibly) hundreds of millions of years ago. They can make huge leaps for one story and make none for the other. We all seem to have the same arguments: "Just because it hasn't been found yet, doesn't mean it isn't true". Some say it about God, that He hasn't been *proven* to exist but many believe He does. Others use it about evolution and fossils. Kind of funny. If I still believed in a traditional God, it would make sense to me that He would use scientific means to create the Earth. The theory of Intelligent Design doesn't really bother me much (although it wouldn't surprise me if there are a few details I disagree with), I just don't understand why people take the very brief, lacking in detail, creation story of the Bible literally.
Originally Posted By planodisney dshyates, i believe in every word of the Bible. I believe it is the inspired word of God, and is perfect. You can call me crazy, but I can give you an extremely impressive list of individuals in history who believe in God, the Bible and creation. How about a vast majority of our founding fathers to start with?
Originally Posted By mele <<I can give you an extremely impressive list of individuals in history who believe in God, the Bible and creation.>> And how would that prove anything?
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 "There still is no missing link, still gaps in the fossil record. " Well, there are fewer gaps than there used to be, and there have been quite a few "missing links" found in recent years. From dinosaurs with feathers, to fish with limbs. There have been many "transitional" species found that help to prove that evolution did happen and maybe not evolving "up", but into something different.
Originally Posted By dshyates "I really wish some of the non-science folks would learn the difference between evolution and natural selection." Well, I am not sure if you are refering to me, But I spent 3 years at the college level studiong evolutionary biology. Ad have had the oppertunity to do research in the fossil records at the Smithsonian. There is no doubt that evolution exists. And I'm not talking about natural selection, which is a function of evolution.
