Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub if they combined the parks then DL would not be the original,Walt's park. Please do not ever suggest making it all one.
Originally Posted By schoolsinger Combing the parks is not really any different than adding a whole bunch of attractions. So unless you consider adding attractions as messing up Walt’s original park, Disneyland will still be Walt’s park.
Originally Posted By oc_dean As I gaze into my crystal ball ... this whole idea, notion, whatever ... of combining parks is never gonna happen! Silly
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "I have come to the conclusion that DCA can never be "fixed." It was a moronic decision to build a second gate in Anaheim, in the first place." I completely disagree. It was necessary for DL's ultimate survival. No matter what your opinion of DCA, look at Anaheim today vs. a decade ago. The redevelopment and urban renewal in the area is the biggest success that Disney could have hoped for. The weak point is, unfortunately, the second gate. "Any second gate at the DLR will never perform to Burbank's ultimate satisfaction. Westcot, DisneySea, Villains thrill park... all would have been failures." That's pure conjecture. I think (my conjecture, admitedly) that a higher-quality, more well-thought out park, even if it was DCA, would have been a much larger creative and financial success. "Disneyland is too dependent upon the local one-day visitor. Disneyland will always have more than 50% local attendance, day in and day out, no matter what. And single day park hopping is a major strain on operational costs." Sure. But the locals come out to DL. They don't for DCA. I have no reason, no proof, no theme park stagnation figures, no economic excuses, no anything to prove they wouldn't come out for a better second gate. Look at how many people are in that local market. There are vast numbers who don't even go to DL regularly. In other words, where others see stagnation, I see potential. Potential that Disney completely missed on with the half-assed park they built. "Anaheim will never become Orlando. And it was beyond dumb*ss stupid to even attempt the transformation." No, it won't. But it doesn't have to be. Not even close. All it needs to do is support two theme parks and I think it's quite capable of doing that. You're giving into the 'it's hopeless' mentality that many DCA-bashers have. I don't believe it.
Originally Posted By idleHands "You're giving into the 'it's hopeless' mentality that many DCA-bashers have. I don't believe it." Yes I am. And I believe it because the level of investment that this park requires to actually make it 'successful' is well beyond Burbank's Ouch Point. Removing Timon and Paradise Pier for a billion dollar expansion would be a nice start, along with removal of weak theming and empty rides/shows in the rest of park. But it ain't gonna happen. DCA will continue to limp along for another four years or so, and possibly transform into a 'decent for Disney' theme park, by 2012. Certainly nothing major will be up and running until Spring '08. And that's two years away. While all the $$$ that went into expanding the resort, with GCH and DTD, was definitely needed, I still believe DL should have received the funds that built DCA, for some 'beyond the berm' expansion, and major reworking of Tomorrowland and Frontierland. Putting all that capital into DCA, IMHO, was foolish. Disney did not absolutely need DCA. But DL definitely still needs work. Lots of it.
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "Yes I am. And I believe it because the level of investment that this park requires to actually make it 'successful' is well beyond Burbank's Ouch Point." I respect your position. I just don't agree. But I also don't know what Burbank's Ouch Point is? Maybe someone else does ... "Removing Timon and Paradise Pier for a billion dollar expansion would be a nice start, along with removal of weak theming and empty rides/shows in the rest of park. But it ain't gonna happen." PP isn't going anywhere, but may be Disneyfied a considerable bit more, like what was originally going to be built as part of Disney's Boardwalk at WDW before they decided timeshares were more important. And Timon expansion is a given. The only questions are when and how much? "DCA will continue to limp along for another four years or so, and possibly transform into a 'decent for Disney' theme park, by 2012. Certainly nothing major will be up and running until Spring '08. And that's two years away." It's still limping better than it was a few years ago. "While all the $$$ that went into expanding the resort, with GCH and DTD, was definitely needed, I still believe DL should have received the funds that built DCA, for some 'beyond the berm' expansion, and major reworking of Tomorrowland and Frontierland. Putting all that capital into DCA, IMHO, was foolish. Disney did not absolutely need DCA. But DL definitely still needs work. Lots of it." If you think DL needs work, I invite you to visit WDW's MK some time soon. THAT parks needs work. DL is great and is getting better. But I stand by what I said earlier, if DCA hadn't have been built, along with DD and the GC and all that new infrastructure, DL would have been in serious trouble. I remember what Anaheim was like in the 80s and 90s ... it was pretty. I know I'm going to get attacked for this, but in some perverse way, I believe DCA may in the long run have saved DL ... at least in its current location.
Originally Posted By idleHands "I know I'm going to get attacked for this, but in some perverse way, I believe DCA may in the long run have saved DL ... at least in its current location." You won't get attacked, at least not by me, because you're correct. DCA did save DL, because of the extra $$$ pumped in with the resort expansion. But at what cost to DL? That's the part I question. Capital improvements placed in DCA does deprive DL. The (in)famous quote by a well-known Imagineer puts it all into perspective: "DCA is the heroin monkey on DL's back." Without DCA next door, DL would be getting more $$$ invested. And for the long haul, what will be the FINAL cost of DCA for DL? Sure, it's been 'saved' by the resort expansion, which most likely would not have happened without the addition of a second gate. But that second gate is a massive drain on the coffers, in attempting to rectify lackluster profitability with post-opening quick fixes, such as DEP, ToT, Monsters, and Project Spackle. It's going to take hundreds of millions of dollars to fix this mess. And I just don't see Disney being comfortable with that notion. So for the short term, DCA will continue to suck. For the long haul, who knows. But theme park investment makes Wall St. antsy. I just don't see this working out for another decade or more.
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "You won't get attacked, at least not by me, because you're correct. DCA did save DL, because of the extra $$$ pumped in with the resort expansion. But at what cost to DL? That's the part I question. Capital improvements placed in DCA does deprive DL. The (in)famous quote by a well-known Imagineer puts it all into perspective: "DCA is the heroin monkey on DL's back." Without DCA next door, DL would be getting more $$$ invested." I thought that quote was from Al Lutz? Not that it matters, I do agree (to a point) with it. When you have two parks, obviously, the $$$ is going to be spread thinner and then go to the park Disney feels needs it the most. "And for the long haul, what will be the FINAL cost of DCA for DL? Sure, it's been 'saved' by the resort expansion, which most likely would not have happened without the addition of a second gate. But that second gate is a massive drain on the coffers, in attempting to rectify lackluster profitability with post-opening quick fixes, such as DEP, ToT, Monsters, and Project Spackle." It's so hard to disagree with this, especially since I have seen firsthand in Florida what overdevelopment has wrought. The MK --if you believe Disney numbers -- is the most visited theme park on earth. But it's suffered getting reinvestment since EPCOT Center debuted. And in the past decade? The $$$ goes where Disney feels its needed most, the park(s) that need their numbers pushed up. So you have the MK falling apart, with no new major attractions added since Splash Mountain, entertainment cut, a lousy five-year old day parade, and an ancient night parade ... but where did the E-Ticket funds go? Epcot and now DAK. My guts says MGM gets the next one because it will fall below DAK in attendance this year -- take that to the bank. "It's going to take hundreds of millions of dollars to fix this mess. And I just don't see Disney being comfortable with that notion. So for the short term, DCA will continue to suck. For the long haul, who knows. But theme park investment makes Wall St. antsy. I just don't see this working out for another decade or more." I don't know if it'll be that long, but it won't be tomorrow or next month or next year or the year after that. It's a long-term deal. But Disney isn't simply going to give up on the park, if they didn't in 2001-03, they certainly won't now. Slowly DCA is becoming what people want ... more Disney, less hip and edgy ... less Pressler, Braverman and Fitzgerald.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<Slowly DCA is becoming what people want ... more Disney>> ... or more Pixar.
Originally Posted By idleHands "I thought that quote was from Al Lutz? Not that it matters, I do agree (to a point) with it." Al nipped it from someone else. Someone else in Glendale. Someone he looks up to. 8^D
Originally Posted By DisneyFreak96 The first thing I would do is simply change the theme from basic California to a California History theme. Keep the letters, but no longer have other displays nearby. (such as the Monsters Inc photo op displays). Change the tiles so that there is a permant shadow under the letters. Change the color of the letters so it reminds one of the old California postcards. Use this as the Park's photographic "logo" in future advertisements when ready to push the 'new' park. Next, open up at least one of the closed entrances, and sell 10 dollar upgrades to the daily passport. Many people choose not to buy the more expensive daily passport hopper but if they sold them right at the entrance and the park is more appealing, I think they might get a few takers who decide at the last minute to enter. Get rid of the Golden Gate Bridge. That thing is ugly and where it comes near the ground, it really ruins the line. Get rid of the mural. Retheme the entry. When I first entered the park, my friend and I actually started getting in a bad mood because of the entry. It was not welcoming and our expectations for the day had dropped right away. Get rid of the photographers (if they are still there). The last thing a guest wants when they first enter a park is to be hit up for money. Move Guest Relations and Greetings farther out. I don't want to be hit with these as soon as I enter. If they want to keep them, make them less obtrusive, and theme the entire area so the entrances are not so obvious. DL does this well. Make the entrance welcoming. Color it a bit more on the historic california theme, and add some flavor to it. Make Greetings themed on the old California postcard I mentioned earlier. Redesign the walkway as you enter. New tiles, older california mission style on the building sides. Add a bunch of palm trees along the walkway to the hub.As one reaches the hub there should be a feeling that one is entering the park to get there. At Disneyland you have that along mainstreet. One does not need arrows to the castle to know that at the end of Main Street one will be hitting the Castle and the magical park. You can feel it in the design. We need that feeling at DCA. Make the hub kinetic. There should be a feeling that everything is coming together. Make a giant fountain, the sun should move as well. Tons of places to sit, to relax when one exits other areas. Make this a real center of the park. Bring back the old Hollywood Theme. Make the theater more comfortable, bathrooms inside, lobby etc. The 'Disney Studios" building facade should be fitting in, instead of standing out as 'aged'. Make most of the buildings art deco Disney style. Pace out the fake doors and windows so they actually belong to the stores like they do at Disneyland. Now you often can't tell which are real stores and which are not. Make it clear which are the real stores in Hollywood. Get rid of Muppets. Put in another C attraction. Move out that little stand that is near Monsters Inc and Muppets. Make that area more welcoming. Add a design bridge to let people know they are leaving 'old' Hollywood for the Hollywood of the here and now. Those attractions and stage are poorly placed as is, so make use of it. Put in a sit down restaurant. Add a second walk up full service snack window. Drinks, fries and pretzels. Take the area where they sell souviners and place a fountain with seating around it. A place to rest your feet once you left Monsters or Tower. Well rested guests make happy guests and happy guests are more likely to buy at all the stores. Now that HBL had aged, do the same to paradise pier. Take out the Midway, old closed shuttered restarants and bring in a hamburger window. Add some trees, and take out the off-the-shelf rides. Replace them with something more imaginative. how about a Disney-fied version of the old Fun houses at carnivals. Great photo ops for the family with their digital cameras as well. Imagine funhouse mirrors that add a Mickey mouse shape to your body...there are many ideas imagineering could run with. Change the sunwheel so it looks like the old ferris wheels of old. Remove the puke buckets for non-swinging ones. Most important is the view once you are on top. Make it worth the guests while to ride. Trees, old style buildings and so on should be what they see. I'll add more later.
Originally Posted By dr jones I think that there would be alot of great possibilities with the "History" theme DisneyFreak96. California has a rich and exciting/storied past with a lot of places and events that would make great rides,lands and attractions. Say for instance the discovery of gold and it's effect on the water fronts of both San Francisco and (Old) Sacramento. You could have a great dark ride based on the Marshall gold discovery. The ride vehicles could either be like old mining cars or it could even be a water based flume ala Pirates. The ride would take you through the story of the discovery of gold in the Sierra with AA prospectors and their mules, the animals in the wilderness etc. Disney used to be great at this kind of thing, the ability to immerse you in that world and tell you a good story all while thrilling you on a great ride. The stories here have all been written already, they just need a little Disney magic and Pixie dust. The bottom line is that it needs to engulf the guest and capture their imagination. You need to be able to walk into(DCA?)and be transported away from whats outside that gate. Disneyland's been doing it for 50 yrs.
Originally Posted By DisneyFreak96 You could even redo the GRR, which is not my favorite attraction due to the fact it is 'seasonal' and theme it into the Gold Rush. Add a few mining AA's and it age the rafts, I might actually go on it again.
Originally Posted By ChiMike Knowing Disney won't redo DCA in large pieces, I'm happy how they are trying to improve the park incrementally. Better than promotions or summer celebrations. Unrealistically, if I was in charge I would close off the Pier and Route 66, sell the rides, and raise everything else. Get rid of the lagoon and start from scratch. That back 1/3 of the park is what needs to be fundamentally redone. Something as ambitious as TL'59 or NOS. With the same level of caliber attraction additions. It would not disrupt the park much since the area would be contained and attendance is still not to major levels. Realistically, if Disney would deal with Route 66 in one dramatic action I think there would be a great chance for DCA to be reinvented. No matter what action they take, they need to tighten, coordinate & focus the park-wide and area themes. Considering what is happening at all the other Disney parks, I highly doubt that will happen.
Originally Posted By DisneyFreak96 <<Knowing Disney won't redo DCA in large pieces, I'm happy how they are trying to improve the park incrementally. Better than promotions or summer celebrations.>> Sadly this is true. I still like to blue sky though.
Originally Posted By dr jones They do have an awful lot of stuff that could be bulldozed in favor of some real E-Ticket attractions, but alas there are some miserly and shortsighted fingers clutching the purse strings.
Originally Posted By ChiMike Even if they were willing to spend a fortune they, imo, just don't have the capacity to do 3 kick butt E-Tickets in a flash. I don't mind, or at least I hope, that they take their time, vet out the bad ideas (or what Marty & Tony would call ideas that aren't super-duper-fabulous great, because God knows WDI only executes on the VERY best ideas), and get stuff built that is enjoyable, has longevity, and most importantly complements everything else in the park's master plan.
Originally Posted By Sweeper << "That back 1/3 of the park is what needs to be fundamentally redone. Something as ambitious as TL'59 or NOS. With the same level of caliber attraction additions." >> I essentially agree. Especially Route 66. I do like parts of the pier, but I would prefer a NOS style redo. That would be something to advertise.
