Originally Posted By barboy2 ///If they were money losers Disney would have scrapped them after the first year./// Could it be that they are "lost leaders"? In other words the programs themselves lose money but overall they help by getting thousands more(who would not have come without the enticements) to the property.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip If I ran the parks I would restore Fantasmic to 7 nights per week, even if it meant making it an extra charge event on the nights it does not presently run. You could not do something like that with the MK fireworks or Illuminations where they can be seen throughout the park. But you COULD do it with Fantasmic. During my recent honeymoon I spent spent 4 nights at WDW and 3 nights on a Disney Cruise. It really bothered me that I wasn't able to show Ann Fantasmic during our WDW stay. We were there Sunday-Wednesday nights. Fantasmic was shown on Sunday several hour before our flight landed and not again until Thursday when we were gone. I would have gladly paid $5 per person to see Fantasmic on one of the days we were there. I think many people would... especially if it meant they could watch Fantasmic without showing up an hour before the show.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<In other words the programs themselves lose money but overall they help by getting thousands more(who would not have come without the enticements) to the property.>> That is very likely. But to my way of thinking, that means they are still money makers. If the overall revenue gains by WDW due to the programs exceeds their cost, then they are money makers. It is kind of like park passes. I don't think there is any way that Disney covers the cost of operating the parks by what it collects in pass revenue. They count on food, lodging and merchandise sales to subsidize the parks.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer So... I adore this thread. Anyway...boring finance talk out of the way...hee hee... While my changes wouldn't be radical in the sense that we would stop ALL things that I'm opposed to, like DVC, synergy, and walmarting/homogenizing the parks, we would see a tempering of those issues, and begin revamping the "other" side of Disney, the more creative side. Mostly... Aesthetics. EPCOT's, for sure. I think it's safe to assume that the current look of FW, mostly Innovetions Plaza is failing. I wrote this for another thread a while ago, but it fits here. "Aesthetics overhaul and rebranding. Declutter the place, give it a unified look, color scheme, and atmosphere. We go from M:S with it's sleek lines, to TT with it's visual explosion of trusses, test dummies, and kinetics. It's not a hard thing to do, the architecture already supports a certain look. Also, clean up the plants, and make everything very, very purposeful. Honestly, the only "whimsy" of FW should be in the vegetation or by JII. This means that signs, structures, and "adornments" should match. The future always looks cohesive. You can't have sleek silver railings...and then bright orange whirly gigs zipping around near by. Open spaces should be made with greenery, and even lighting at night. Also, kinetics of light can do a lot for the wow factor of the park. Looking at you, fiber optic side walks...and maybe buildings? Logos should be similar for the pavilions, but show their differences. And understandable. Rebranding goes hand in hand with this. EPCOT needs to be regarded as very separate, and very different from MK and DHS for it to be understood. Separate it in advertisement, promotion, and logo. As for actual construction? What you guys have said. JII, WS, Kill Nemo. If you wanna get nitty gritty, add TT, UoE and SSE to the list. But honestly, and realistically, the aesthetics can go a LONG LONG LONG WAY." As for the rest of the parks... Same thing. Bring in signs and details that make the place unique. Bring in more trees, keep them clean and supportive of theme. As for rides...? I can understand the idea that you need some synergy, but keep it in places that work for it, like DHS and Fantasyland. The rest of the areas in the parks should be unique, should have something you can't find any where else. Something that makes that park a destination. Same with Merch. By all means, KEEP the synergy stuff. It makes killer profit, I'm sure. But at the same time, there should be shops that support the areas they are in. Bring back those, too. In short, what I'm rambling on about is a very, very, very, nice way on keeping the current profitability of WDW NOW, and meshing it with the ideas and concepts that made it so unique and so DIFFERENT in the 70's, 80's, and early 90's. Best of both worlds, really.
Originally Posted By standor If Disney wants to make their customers(guests)happy again, they have to give them something to bring them back. They have to show parades every day. Illuminations must be shown every day. Before the dining plan you could get into every restaurant. Now if you want to eat a decent meal you have to leave WDW. They have to clean up the parks and do a better job of maintenance. They must keep the parks open longer.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>If I ran the parks I would restore Fantasmic to 7 nights per week, even if it meant making it an extra charge event on the nights it does not presently run. You could not do something like that with the MK fireworks or Illuminations where they can be seen throughout the park. But you COULD do it with Fantasmic. <<< Disagreed totally. Fireworks come with admission, IMO. And you COULD keep Fant. running 3 times a week... ....Just make sure that there is some OTHER finale show running for the whole park. Can't run Sorcery In the Sky anymore as the park needs to close halfway for the pyro, but you could do some nice projection and light show down Hollywood Blvd set to music. Even Sunset. ToT makes a GREAT backdrop for a show, and it's possible to even launch pyro around it, and have Sunset become a new "MSUSA". That's a idea I had for Nightastic... LOL.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>They have to clean up the parks and do a better job of maintenance.<<< That just goes without saying as part of my aesthetics plan. Things need to look more natural, and be clean. And not look worn down. Looking at you, TTC.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I guess I'm the eternal optimist. I figure if we could survive the real estate meltdown and the liquidity crisis of the investment banks we can survive anything. I know people rip on Obama about it, but I really believe in 5-10 years alternative energy and green products could do for the economy what the Internet did during the 90's... IF we are willing to make the investment ---------------------- the worst of the real estate crisis may not be over RT- that is my concern. I know I lost over $100K of value and many in my area that bought in the last 5 years as opposed to 15 years ago like me are hurting..and watch the news with Obama's team now looking at either tweaking or eliminating the mortgage deduction to raise even more taxes to pay for his other spending..if that deduction goes away expect many many people to walk away from their properties - especially in hard hit areas like Vegas and middle America. I don't agree with that action before anyone jumps on me- but I believe there will be a mass exodus from home ownership at that point- and the subsequent total collapse of the home building industry and all related industries, stay tuned
Originally Posted By vbdad55 MYW may not be a slam dunk as I know many people out there with tickets foir days ( and especially those who paid for the plusses - they have not used and likely will never use. In theory that means Disney collected more $ than they delivered services for. SO it may not be quite the loser it appears - need more info DDP - I agree needs to go - I think the residual effect is it is driving steady sit down customers away also due to ever increasing proces/ homogenation of menus and difficulty booking -- that part would not be in financial calc's they would do but I believe is an effect
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>I guess I'm the eternal optimist. I figure if we could survive the real estate meltdown and the liquidity crisis of the investment banks we can survive anything. I know people rip on Obama about it, but I really believe in 5-10 years alternative energy and green products could do for the economy what the Internet did during the 90's... IF we are willing to make the investment<<< I actually agree with that, totally. We have a need to mobilize this country to do these things for itself, not just for the obvious reasons, for the fact that it can help in our current economic climate.
Originally Posted By Christi22222 I like this plan for focusing on aesthetics at Epcot and bringing some cohesiveness back to that park. I didn't see Epcot until 1998, and I've frankly never completely gotten FW. I do like it, and many of the attractions, but something wasn't right. And I think your re-quoted paragraph, EE, gets at that. Just pay some attention to it for gosh sakes! I think that would help it a lot. I'd also throw in making the flow patterns better through FW. That place is just a pain in the backside to get around and can honestly make folks a bit grumpy just for that. Oh, and I really like the fiber optic sidewalks at Epcot, so buildings with it is very inspired!! (I'm just not that creative on my own, can you tell? lol) As for paid evening shows, I just can't get there. I am okay with the paid events if there is substance to their offerings. But breaking down each offering into a la carte pricing on top of tickets is just a way to create angry and entitled (moreso!) guests. If that is a solution, you need to go the whole way and go back to tickets for attractions. And I actually don't think that is a bad idea, really. Sort of limits the buffet from gorging (if anyone's been following the DL threads!).
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>I'd also throw in making the flow patterns better through FW. That place is just a pain in the backside to get around and can honestly make folks a bit grumpy just for that.<<< It USED to be a lot more flowing, and made sense. However, CCore becoming Innovetions, and the removal of some bridges and ponds really makes the place harder to navigate. >>> but something wasn't right.<<<< It's all about setting, and the way that the existing attractions are introduced. Honestly, I could find ways of making FW's current line up work as it is, save for Nemo, probably, without having to do a massive overhaul of the place. However, the overhaul could be MUCH more fun. ;-) >>Oh, and I really like the fiber optic sidewalks at Epcot, so buildings with it is very inspired!! (I'm just not that creative on my own, can you tell? lol)<<< Yes, you are. LOL. And me and lighting...Yeesh. I think if I really did run the park, there would be a time where each building would have to look like a technicolor mess, and then I'd have to tone it down. LOL. But I do think that lighting is very much understated in a park like EPCOT. It's SUCH an easy "plus" to add in there, especially for kinetics and movement. CCore Court is the biggest example of it. Those two buildings are begging to have their "scroll" screens put back, from the 90's, but only with LEDs. That would look so much better than the pink neon. >>>As for paid evening shows, I just can't get there. I am okay with the paid events if there is substance to their offerings. But breaking down each offering into a la carte pricing on top of tickets is just a way to create angry and entitled (moreso!) guests. If that is a solution, you need to go the whole way and go back to tickets for attractions. And I actually don't think that is a bad idea, really. Sort of limits the buffet from gorging (if anyone's been following the DL threads!).<<< Agreed. If you are gonna ticket one attraction, might as well do it to them all. However, I don't see that one happening. I think it's pretty bad that we already hold hard ticket events! Though, I do love MVMCP and really think that it's worth it.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>I bet the Duffy tree would be bigger!!!!!<<< Massive. It would take the place of the wand.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Funny... I always liked the addition of the colorful whirligigs to the Innoventions Plaza. I thought that previously it was a dead expanse of white and grey. I like a little color in my future! I’m not saying the area could not be better… just please don’t take it back to the mausoleum it once was.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<Funny... I always liked the addition of the colorful whirligigs to the Innoventions Plaza. I thought that previously it was a dead expanse of white and grey. I like a little color in my future! I’m not saying the area could not be better… just please don’t take it back to the mausoleum it once was.>> Huh? It used to be green and filled with water. <a href="http://epcot82.blogspot.com/2009/10/theres-no-there-there.html" target="_blank">http://epcot82.blogspot.com/20...ere.html</a>
Originally Posted By fkurucz "I think they would soon discover the economic realities and things would not be terribly different than they are now. People forget that when Walt was around he was spending HIS money and he was willing to spend plenty of it in pursuit of his vision. Now Disney is just one more Fortune 500 Company that puts current shareholder return above all else." It would be nice if the theme park division were privately held. Then management could make long term decisions without worrying about Wall St. breathing down their necks.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<It would be nice if the theme park division were privately held. Then management could make long term decisions without worrying about Wall St. breathing down their necks.>> I want Oriental Land Company to buy WDW. They know how to run/develop a theme park.
