Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney <<Nothing of Quality since 1986...Ridiculous!" Yes. That would be ridiculous if that was what I said but I didn't. Why don't you read what was written.<< Here is exactly what you posted: <<I would take all WDW execs (as well as Rasulo and Iger) back to 1986 and show them what true Disney quality and show was all about. Then, I'd return them to the present ... IF and only IF they dedicated themselves to providing that kind of experience today.<< "That says to me that since 1986 nothing has been added to the world that has true Disney quality and show. That is just plain nonsense. In fact if WDW had stayed the way it was in 1986 it would have gone out of business long ago IMO. Although 1986 was a good year with the 15th celerbration. But Epcot was already starting to die. " Absurd, like all your statements Goof. You can read into my statement whatever you wish, but it doesn't mean anything other than what I said. I never said nothing positive has been added to WDW since then. I don't believe that at all! And let's get into your hyperbole. Epcot was starting to die in 1986. How ridiculous a statement. The Living Seas opened that year. Ground was broken on Norway that year. Skyleidescope was just starting on the lagoon. Illuminations was being approved late in the year. Just a very stupid statement. EPCOT Center was in its prime in '86. <<I still think you're a troll. You add nothing to any discussion here except lavish praise to an outlandish degree on everything WDW-related.<< "I am not a troll. I am a positive person and not a whiner or curmudgeon." I am not a whiner nor a curmudgeon. I am a realist. I don't OD on pixie dust or whatever it is that makes you unable to criticize anything about WDW. I tell it like I see it. It clearly bothers your "World view." "LuvDatDisney you remind me of a person in a story a CM friend of mine tells. My friend works guest relations in the MK and tells about a woman who came in and complained that she found a spill on a sidewalk and reported it to a CM. Then she waited there and timed how long it took for someone to come and clean it up. She said it took 45 minutes and to her that was not acceptable." Sad. I'd be happy they actually cleaned it. I find the same food stains on the sidewalks weeks later since Disney decided it wasn't important enough to pressure clean the walkways every night. "When I hear stories like this or read post here like that at first I laugh but then I am sad. To think that that woman or posters on these boards pay to get into the MK, which is the happiest place on earth, then instead of just having fun, choose to stand around and time custodial or take pics of full trash cans or make mental notes of how dirty the carpet was in a certain place just to post it here on these boards is just sad to me." First, I must correct you. DL is the Happiest Place on Earth, not WDW, not the MK. And what makes me sad is that Disney no longer chooses to live up to the amazing standards it conditioned me -- and advertised to the world -- to expect. I don't time custodial, I don't take pictures of trash cans. But I do take a mental note when I see things that are unacceptable. Sadly, I see things way too often. "I will keep posting my " lavish praise to an outlandish degree on everything WDW-related" because it counters your negative comments. I might even start to post my own pics, for every full trash can pictured I will picture 50 empty and clean ones and for every foot of dirty sidewalk pictured I will picture hundreds of square feet of clean sidewalk. Then again maybe I won't because when I am in the parks I have to much fun to even think of such things." You will never counter me because I don't respect your views. And I can -- and more often than not -- post about all the great things WDW has to offer and what Disney does right. You have zero credibility because you can't see that just maybe WDW isn't perfect and isn't up to its past standards. So go take pictures of empty trashcans and clean sidewalks, at least it will give you something to do.
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "I would imagine that the point is, "back in the day" folks like LuvDatDisney and TDLFAN wouldn't have ever had the opportunity to photograph an overflowing trash can or a dirty sidewalk, becasue they simply weren't allowed to ever happen. I don't know if that is true or not, but they see a slip in quality. They still have fun at Disney; they just don't want to see the quality that you enjoy slip away." Trekkeruss gets it perfectly. Thanks for distilling things down because you nailed it 100%.
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney Great post 38, vbdad55 ... good to see a few folks here do get where I am coming from and where I don't want to see WDW going.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN The only thing I have to add to trekkeruss post is...about this statement >>>I don't know if that is true or not, but they see a slip in quality.<<< If it wasn't true, I would not b* and moan so often about the slip in cleanliness and custodial work. I don't come here to waste my time and make up things just for fun.
Originally Posted By Lewis Goofy <<I find the same food stains on the sidewalks weeks later since Disney decided it wasn't important enough to pressure clean the walkways every night.<< LuvDatDisney you make statements like this all the time that are just not true. Disney did not cut back on pressure cleaning the sidewalks because it was not important. They did it in response to the fires in 1998. They went before the state legislature with there water conservation plan before the state forced them into it. Thats why some of the fountains were turned into planters and the sidewalks were only cleaned every other night. That's why I don't respect your views you only post half truths that make Disney the bad guy. You sound just like a disgruntled ex CM.
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "LuvDatDisney you make statements like this all the time that are just not true. Disney did not cut back on pressure cleaning the sidewalks because it was not important. They did it in response to the fires in 1998. They went before the state legislature with there water conservation plan before the state forced them into it. Thats why some of the fountains were turned into planters and the sidewalks were only cleaned every other night. That's why I don't respect your views you only post half truths that make Disney the bad guy. You sound just like a disgruntled ex CM." This is simply B.S. mixed with corporate spin. Disney stopped the nightly cleanings BEFORE the '98 fires. And the state never ordered Disney to do anything. Disney is a governmental body unto itself, check the Reedy Creek Improvement District charter. And let's assume you were correct -- which you aren't -- but the terrible fire season was eight years ago. Those same fountains are still planters, saving Disney water and upkeep. Disney still doesn't clean its walkways nightly, or even weekly, anymore. So again ... what's the excuse? Money. Plain and simple. The MK walkways are often filthy and it does impact a guest's perception of the place. Bad point to argue.
Originally Posted By Lewis Goofy <<I would imagine that the point is, "back in the day" folks like LuvDatDisney and TDLFAN wouldn't have ever had the opportunity to photograph an overflowing trash can or a dirty sidewalk, becasue they simply weren't allowed to ever happen.<< That is just not true. The parks were never that clean. They just did not see the dirt back then because everything was new to them and they just did not notice. I have been going to the MK since December of 1971 and have lived in central Florida for 25 plus years. The first time I noticed the trash was when Epcot Center first opened. I could not beleive how dirty Epcot Center was compared to the MK. I thought that it must be the number of guest was just overwhelming Disney and they could not keep up. But then I started to look at the MK and resorts and found that they were not as clean as I thought they were.All those years I was walking around blinded by pixie dust. Thats how they are...they are remembering a Disney that never was and now that they notice how it really is they think that it is a cut in Disney quality and show.
Originally Posted By Lewis Goofy <<1984-1994) when they were growing, but still following Walt's ideals.<< They are still following Walt's ideals marketing to the least common denominator. That is why you have plush and pins in every store. Walt was a give the guest what they want type of guy...IMO.
Originally Posted By Lewis Goofy <<I still don't see from above how one gets to nothing quality has been added since 1986, from taking them back to see the quality at that time....<< Yes but the post goes on to say that they could only return if they promise to provide that 1986 quality today. Which means that the quality of WDW in 2006 is not the same as it was in 1986 or has been since 1986. Wich is just a false statement.
Originally Posted By Lewis Goofy <<Disney stopped the nightly cleanings BEFORE the '98 fires.<< I do not think that is true...but if you know that is fact I would have to take your word on it. <<And the state never ordered Disney to do anything.<< Disney came up with there own plan to conserve water being the good corporate neighbor that they are. They wanted to conserve as much as possible while keeping up the quality of there parks and resorts. We did not want anyone in central Florida to lose there home to fire because of our misuse of valuable water resources.
Originally Posted By Lewis Goofy <<And let's get into your hyperbole. Epcot was starting to die in 1986. How ridiculous a statement. The Living Seas opened that year. Ground was broken on Norway that year. Skyleidescope was just starting on the lagoon. Illuminations was being approved late in the year. Just a very stupid statement. EPCOT Center was in its prime in '86.<< You are right that is a ridiculous statement. Epcot Center was in its prime in '86. Especially with the MK 15th celerbration going on... Epcot Center had a lot of guest and was new to most.
Originally Posted By Lewis Goofy <<Absurd, like all your statements Goof.<< All my statements...come on LuvDatDisney there has to be one statement that makes some sense.
Originally Posted By Lewis Goofy <<but the terrible fire season was eight years ago. Those same fountains are still planters, saving Disney water and upkeep.what's the excuse? Money.<< Has Disney saved money...sure. But as you know, I beleive you posted that you are a Floridian, we are in a drought right now and some fires have already started. We just hope that our conservation efforts have been enough to help with anything that starts here in central Florida. Our first concern are our neighbors here in central Florida.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<But as you know, I beleive you posted that you are a Floridian, we are in a drought right now and some fires have already started. We just hope that our conservation efforts have been enough to help with anything that starts here in central Florida. Our first concern are our neighbors here in central Florida.>> There may a drought going on in Florida. But as I was in WDW last month, I can assure you there is plenty of water on WDW property! I never realized just how many lakes, canals and drainage ditches there are. And there was water everywhere. Another thing I noticed was how much water this is in EPCOT. EPCOT has plenty of foutains. So I don't buy the "there's a drought going on excuse". Disney has water, lots of it!
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>LuvDatDisney you make statements like this all the time that are just not true.<< I can't speak for LuvDatDisney but I have had several custodial CM on duty at the park tell me so when I have inquired..and they are willing to tell me what's going on because I am that important a guest ..plus they are willing to add that "management do not care either". I believe it. >>That is just not true. The parks were never that clean. They just did not see the dirt back then because everything was new to them and they just did not notice.<< Lewis.. you just last all credibility with me. I was a CM at Disney and kmew quite well how clean the parks were. You don't see dirty floors like you see at the MK now a days at TDL, which has been opened for almost 23 yrs. If TDl's floors are spotless to this day.. why is the MK's condition so bad. All you have to do is pour thru my photos from TDL to see the difference.
Originally Posted By MinnieSummer My custodial complaint is in the restrooms. I can remember walking in ALWAYS being amazed that they were so clean and never smelled -- there was never toilet paper on the floors or water all over the counters and they smelled like they had just been cleaned. Today the restrooms are filthy and they smell. I make my daughter wear skirts so her shorts don't hit the ground when she puuls them down to use the toilet. But some of the blame for this goes to the huge number of guests that pass through WDW gates each day that have absolutely no respect for anything. Keeping up with them would be difficult without budget cuts. My point is that anyone who thinks the parks were just as dirty before as they are now needs to think a little harder about their definition of clean vs dirty.
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "That is just not true. The parks were never that clean. They just did not see the dirt back then because everything was new to them and they just did not notice. I have been going to the MK since December of 1971 and have lived in central Florida for 25 plus years. The first time I noticed the trash was when Epcot Center first opened. I could not beleive how dirty Epcot Center was compared to the MK. I thought that it must be the number of guest was just overwhelming Disney and they could not keep up. But then I started to look at the MK and resorts and found that they were not as clean as I thought they were.All those years I was walking around blinded by pixie dust. Thats how they are...they are remembering a Disney that never was and now that they notice how it really is they think that it is a cut in Disney quality and show." Bull. I've been going to WDW as long as you have. I live in the area. I've spent countless days there. My mind didn't suddenly go foggy in the mid-90s when WDW started operating with a completely different business model. And my memories, and families' memories and photos, all reflect an almost pristine EC in the early and mid 80s, Goof. You are blinded by pixie dust and PR and marketing spin. "They are still following Walt's ideals marketing to the least common denominator. That is why you have plush and pins in every store. Walt was a give the guest what they want type of guy...IMO." Pathetic argument. Walt always gave his audience credit for having brains. He tried to educate, often, as well as entertain. I don't think Walt would have said ''fellas, let's just sell cheap pins and plush in every shop, to hell with the story we're trying to tell.'' The current crop of Orlando execs have, for the most part, no respect for their guests and cast. The think they're all simple goofballs like ... <<I still don't see from above how one gets to nothing quality has been added since 1986, from taking them back to see the quality at that time....<< "Yes but the post goes on to say that they could only return if they promise to provide that 1986 quality today. Which means that the quality of WDW in 2006 is not the same as it was in 1986 or has been since 1986. Wich is just a false statement. " No. It is true. WDW gave its guests a better quality product in 1986 than they do today. Bigger isn't better despite any PR spin. Service. Cleanliness. Upkeep. CM. Show. ... all were significantly better two decades ago. "Disney came up with there own plan to conserve water being the good corporate neighbor that they are. They wanted to conserve as much as possible while keeping up the quality of there parks and resorts. We did not want anyone in central Florida to lose there home to fire because of our misuse of valuable water resources. " Good corporate neighbor?!?!?! Have you checked your medication? WDW has turned Central Florida into a servive economy where most jobs pay under $10 an hour with no benefits (free theme park tix nonwithstanding). Many of their employees are on state and federal aid because they make so little. As to conservation, Disney has no problem cutting down a forest in days to put up a new resort. Disney was only thinking of saving money and looking good by cutting water use. Period. And again, that was eight years ago. What's been the excuse since?
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney <<And let's get into your hyperbole. Epcot was starting to die in 1986. How ridiculous a statement. The Living Seas opened that year. Ground was broken on Norway that year. Skyleidescope was just starting on the lagoon. Illuminations was being approved late in the year. Just a very stupid statement. EPCOT Center was in its prime in '86.<< "You are right that is a ridiculous statement. Epcot Center was in its prime in '86. Especially with the MK 15th celerbration going on... Epcot Center had a lot of guest and was new to most." Gee, Goof, you're right.
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "There may a drought going on in Florida. But as I was in WDW last month, I can assure you there is plenty of water on WDW property! I never realized just how many lakes, canals and drainage ditches there are. And there was water everywhere. Another thing I noticed was how much water this is in EPCOT. EPCOT has plenty of foutains. So I don't buy the "there's a drought going on excuse". Disney has water, lots of it!" Right Tom. And we aren't in any major drought. Just a slightly drier than normal winter. But I must have imagined the pouring rain that kept me from going to WDW last weekend. If you see a fountain off at WDW, it's simply because it's either a way of saving water/money or saving upkeep/money. Let the show be damned.
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "Lewis.. you just last all credibility with me. I was a CM at Disney and kmew quite well how clean the parks were. You don't see dirty floors like you see at the MK now a days at TDL, which has been opened for almost 23 yrs. If TDl's floors are spotless to this day.. why is the MK's condition so bad. All you have to do is pour thru my photos from TDL to see the difference." It's all spin, TDLFAN. This dude is either a troll or a Disney CM/apologist. He uses the classic 'you must not remember correctly' argument to try and make others think folks like us don't recall what was reality. Kinda like the right wing talk show hosts trying to convince listeners that the video of that soldier being shot six times in LA doesn't tell the story. The reality -- not anyone's perception -- is that WDW doesn't maintain itself to the same standards it did 20 years ago. It may not be a fact you can google or look up in a dictionary, but it's a fact nonetheless.
