Originally Posted By dlkozy I don't see you mentioning jonvn, that you would have all who are interested in coming here to work have to go through some kind of screening process-don't you think that that might be a very important thing to do?
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<I really don't see the corrolation in the price of goods myself. A big mac meal in Tokyo is comparably priced to one in New York City, but I've not seen a whole lot of illegal workers there.>> Whatever. When restaurants here in Ann Arbor, Michigan (a college town) have needed to find help at the wages they're willing to pay, they've either hired illegals or gone out of business. I'd guess the same is true for the hotel industry here -- and around the US. Perhaps in NYC there is population density such that there are enough native-borns to take the below-poverty wages that the fast-food industry offers. And perhaps in Japan the work dynamic is different. That doesn't change the fact that many US restaurants (and hotels) could not continue to remain operational without the staffing of illegal workers who are willing to accept poverty-level wages. The US is completely dependent upon illegals. It is completely hypocritical for consumers to demand low prices and to decry illegals.
Originally Posted By Mr X **That doesn't change the fact that many US restaurants (and hotels) could not continue to remain operational without the staffing of illegal workers who are willing to accept poverty-level wages.** Then maybe the answer is for a lot of these businesses to go under, and for the chains to suffer heavy closures. Once the reality hits the bottom line where it counts (the deep pocket crowd), they'll adjust. Of course, in order for that process to occur there has to be strict enforcement of the illegal workers laws (there isn't), otherwise the corporations will continue turning a blind eye to the problems as long as they can get away with paying poverty-wages and finding workers that will work for them.
Originally Posted By Mr X **It is completely hypocritical for consumers to demand low prices and to decry illegals.** Hypocracy is irrelevant here. The consumer votes with his wallet. If the prices are too high he goes elsewhere (or stays home).
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<Don't use me as your excuse from bowing out of the thread.>> Speaking of... Where's Darkbeer?
Originally Posted By peeaanuut This topic has gotten way off the original thread. A few hundred more posts and im sure we will come full circle. ill check in later and see what happens.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan dlkozy, you dodged my question waaa-aa-aay back there in the thread. I asked if you'd shoot unscrupulous contractors, business owners who jack up prices to take advantage of people attempting to rebuild, scam artists, etc. as well as leaders of industries like agriculture which we all know hire lots and lots of illegal workers. You didn't answer the question by asking me a question. You want a current example? Take a look into the work of Blackwater in Iraq. That's what you get with a shoot-first-ask-questions-later policy. We're talking about a handful of people here who were caught and arrested. The probem was dealt with. But that doesn't seem to be enough -- you want these people shot on sight?
Originally Posted By jonvn "that you would have all who are interested in coming here to work have to go through some kind of screening process" I said those who are not criminals. Other than illegally immigrating here, I don't think there are 12,000,000 hardened criminals here.
Originally Posted By dlkozy >>>"I said those who are not criminals. Other than illegally immigrating here, I don't think there are 12,000,000 hardened criminals here."<<< In order to know the good guys from the bad guys you will have to have a screening process. CA's jails and prisons are bursting out the seams with illegals. The Mexican Maffia has now set up shot all over the U.S.-and these are real tough guys. The question that I posted to you asked if you would have some sort of screening process and how would you do that? Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that you posted that you were against fencing off the border.
Originally Posted By Mr X **CA's jails and prisons are bursting out the seams with illegals.** Why not deport them?
Originally Posted By dlkozy >>>"dlkozy, you dodged my question waaa-aa-aay back there in the thread. I asked if you'd shoot unscrupulous contractors, business owners who jack up prices to take advantage of people attempting to rebuild, scam artists, etc. as well as leaders of industries like agriculture which we all know hire lots and lots of illegal workers. You didn't answer the question by asking me a question."<<< No, K2M, I just missed it-funny thing LP is not my life and I don't sit at the computer waiting to chat. Don't make it out to be bigger than it is. For the business that hire illegals-they ought to loose their business licenses. Homeowners who hire illegals because it's cheaper ought to be heavily fined as well as those in Agriculture who hire and abuse illegal workers. As far as Blackwater goes, one would have to have ALL of the details and none of us here on the boards do-certainly one cannot count on the media to give all the details in an unbiased form. It is not unheard of in a major disaster for not only there to be curfews but hearing that the police have announced that looters will be shot on site. Anyone DUMB enough to then loot is deciding their own fate.
Originally Posted By dlkozy >>>"CA's jails and prisons are bursting out the seams with illegals. The Mexican Maffia has now set up shot all over the U.S.-and these are real tough guys."<<< OOPS-typed too fast-it should read has now set up shop all over the U.S.
Originally Posted By dlkozy >>>"Why not deport them?"<<< Deporting the big time criminals doesn't seem much more than a slap on the wrist and bingo they are back in the U.S. again.
Originally Posted By jonvn Yes, a screening process. That means you check to see if they have a criminal record. That's about it. Not really anything more than you'd do for a passport or any other visa. The reason you have so many illegal aliens in jails is because they live in an element of criminality which breeds crime. I've said this many times now, and don't know why I have to repeat it again. And yes, fencing off the border is idiotic. I've already said why.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut <<Yes, a screening process. That means you check to see if they have a criminal record. That's about it. Not really anything more than you'd do for a passport or any other visa.>> because foreign criminal systems have the best record keeping?
Originally Posted By jonvn Then you let them in, and if they commit crimes, the rest of the population who now can not act as responsible citzens can start doing so, and you reduce crime. You need to realize these people are already here, and are continuing to come. This reality needs to be recognized.
Originally Posted By dlkozy If there is no fence, and people just continue to flow across the border-how exactly are you going to screen these people, jonvn? >>>" and are continuing to come..."<<< in HUGE numbers because there is no fence. If people that want into our country do not enter with either enough money to hold them over until they secure a job/ or have proof of a job waiting for them-guess what will happen!
Originally Posted By jonvn "If there is no fence" The fence is useless. What do you think these people are going to do? They are desperate. You think a fence is going to stop them? "people just continue to flow across the border" As I've said several times now, you give them visas to work, require the visas for employment. That's all. You keep bringing up these issues. Why don't you look at what the issue already is, and come up with a solution that is realistic and will work. Because I will tell you right now, a fence will not.
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