Originally Posted By peeaanuut <<As I've said several times now, you give them visas to work, require the visas for employment. That's all. >> I dont see them standing in line to get a visa. As it is they work tax free now and in a single day make more than most of us do in a week. just like the losers at the freeway entrance. They make more than an honest working person and get off tax free. Work visas are not going to work.
Originally Posted By jonvn "I dont see them standing in line to get a visa." And where would you be looking to see them stand in line? Aside from that, since what I'm proposing doesn't exist, it's not like they're going to be standing in line in the first place.
Originally Posted By Mr X **As it is they work tax free now and in a single day make more than most of us do in a week. just like the losers at the freeway entrance.** If true, why doesn't everyone do it then? Heck, if you're right, who's really the "loser"? They're pretty wealthy if you're correct.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut <<Aside from that, since what I'm proposing doesn't exist, it's not like they're going to be standing in line in the first place.Aside from that, since what I'm proposing doesn't exist, it's not like they're going to be standing in line in the first place.>> are you forgetting that we do have a process for getting citizenship in this country. They have already skirted that.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut <<Heck, if you're right, who's really the "loser"? They're pretty wealthy if you're correct.>> If they were to make what they make on one job every day of the week they would be quite wealthy. Minus the large percentage they send back to their family.
Originally Posted By jonvn "are you forgetting that we do have a process for getting citizenship in this country" Are you forgetting it's not working? Of course they are skirting it, it doesn't work for them. This has nothing to do with becoming a citizen or even a permanent resident. It's a work visa.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut we also have a process to get a work visa, a student visa and a travel visa. None of those roads are being taken. Why would creating yet another visa solve the problem? Does it have a better picture on it?
Originally Posted By jonvn You mean like an H9? They don't grant work visas to unskilled labor. "Why would creating yet another visa solve the problem? " Because it would have a very low threshold, people would pretty much just be able to apply, and get in, barring a criminal record of some kind. Since I've said this at least half a dozen times, this should be rather clear at this point.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut so what benefit would an unskilled worker have to our society? Im just wondering why the US should just let anyone in? If they cannot work, than what would be the benefit of letting them into the county?
Originally Posted By barboy "so what benefit would an unskilled worker have to our society?" "Im just wondering why the US should just let anyone in?" Have you ever been out in Cali's central valley during high spring all the way deep into fall? It can get hot out there during that span, very hot. Working in the orchards and fields won't exactly attract blue passport holding white unskilled workers even if wages were dramatically increased. Have you ever placed an elder for care in a home or do you know any elderly who require daily assistance? Tell me who is going to clean feces, urine and vomit off of our eldest family members. It won't be work authorized white America---- I promise you on this Same with fast food, home construction, landscape design/maintenance, nannies and motel/hotel cleaning---- so who will do it?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<so what benefit would an unskilled worker have to our society?>> By the number of unskilled workers that are hired in agriculture, construction, roofing, meatpacking, housekeeping, cooking, etc. I would say we have a substantial need for their labor. If they were legal they would pay taxes on their wages. They would no longer be an 'underground' population with all the problems that presents. The government would know who they were and where they were if they committed crimes. The government would have a reasonable way to control the process. Right now the government has no control because the policy is seen as worthless by just about everyone, so it is routinely violated. If we put reasonable policies in place all concerned would make efforts to abide by them. Right now there is no incentive for illegals to 'play nice'. They know if they are found they will be sent back to Mexico. They might as well commit crimes... they have already been branded criminals. If the situation is handled intelligently many of the problems associated with illegal immigration will be resolved with corresponding benefit to both the immigrants and U.S. citizens. By the way... for all those who bluster about how their ancestors followed the rules and everyone else should too... At the time most of our ancestors immigrated to America (including my great-great grandparents) there was only one rule: be free of disease. I don't think any of today's immigrants would have a problem if the U.S. wanted to put that rule back in place.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut and this is where we go into fantasyland. Do you people really think that if they are working tax free now they will magically switch to tax paying jobs? Not gonna happen.
Originally Posted By jonvn "So what benefit would an unskilled worker have to our society?" Oh, I don't know. You might want to go figure that out by looking at what all the currently illegal immigrants are doing who are unskilled and are doing work that no one else seems willing to do. "Im just wondering why the US should just let anyone in? " Well, they let you in or your ancestors. Why did they do that?
Originally Posted By jonvn "Do you people really think that if they are working tax free now they will magically switch to tax paying jobs? " Yes, because you make it so that it's required that people you employ have a work visa. Right now, you can't hire these sorts of people unless you get illegal immigrants.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut it currently is illegal to hire undocumented workers. We just dont enforce it.
Originally Posted By jonvn It is currently impossible to fill these sorts of jobs otherwise. This is why it's not enforced, except at random. I don't see you going out to be a farm worker.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut I dont go to be a farm worker because I have a better paying job and I do not live near any farms. But when I didnt have a better paying job, I worked at a retirement center changing bed-pans. While I never worked fastfood I did work for a time in a pizza kitchen I was part owner of. If I didnt have a job and needed one I would certainly take what is given to me if I needed the money. My pride does not get in the way of my need to eat.
Originally Posted By dlkozy >>>"By the way... for all those who bluster about how their ancestors followed the rules and everyone else should too... At the time most of our ancestors immigrated to America (including my great-great grandparents) there was only one rule: be free of disease."<<< That's not all my ancestor had to do to get into this country-all already posted what she had to do. And as for "blustering", you have that down to a science-right along with all of your name calling etc. I have yet to see you involved in any discussion where you don't resort to juvenile verbiage.
Originally Posted By jonvn "I dont go to be a farm worker because I have a better paying job " Well, guess what. So does just about everyone else who also are not taking those jobs. That's why you have unskilled labor coming in from across the border to do this work.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<That's not all my ancestor had to do to get into this country-all already posted what she had to do.>> Yes. She had to do a bunch of stuff to become a CITIZEN. I would never want it any other way. How much stuff did she have to do just to be let in the country? Also, if you are anywhere close to the age I think you are; your grandmother would be about the age of my mother. By that time immigration had already been tightened considerably since the time most of the immigration to this country occurred.
