Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<All these problems would disappear if we didn't seem to require a slave class of workers made up of illegal immigrants.>> Thank you, jonvyn. You said it more concisely and powerfully than I. Outraged red-white-and-blue Americans, you can bitch about the presence of illegals. Or you can continue to enjoy your $4.89 Big Mac combo meals. But you can't have it both ways. Oh. Wait. Did I make it sound as though it's only fast-food restaurants that hire illegals? In my very affluential town in the very northern US... in our most expensive, you-can-only-eat-there-on-special-occasion restaurants, the dishwashers don't speak a word of English. I discovered that while speaking (in Spanish) with one of those dishwashers while he was riding the bus from one of his low-paying jobs to the other. If only I'd had a loaded weapon on me. I'd have shot him.
Originally Posted By dlkozy SPP posted >>>"Is LOL a real word, partial word or an entire word? And then there's the exclamation point......"<<< Look out Inspector, you might rile up SPP for using LOL with an exclamation point too!#@%^&*()
Originally Posted By peeaanuut <<Just because someone is undocumented, an illegal worker or a refugee or whatever, doesn't mean they have no rights. There are international laws and standards that must be abided by. You make it sound like they're vermin to be exterminated for pete's sake!>> I didnt say they had no rights. I specifically asked about due process. That is certainly NOT a right in many parts of the world. Illegal aliens DO NOT have the right to due process under our law. Because we tend to accord them that luxury does not make it law.
Originally Posted By dlkozy >>>"Outraged red-white-and-blue Americans, you can bitch about the presence of illegals...."<<< I thought this was a discussion board where people discuss things-or was that just when they agree with you that they are not "bitching" but discussing?
Originally Posted By peeaanuut dlkozy: there are a few here on the boards that think it is their board and not anyone elses and specifically spend time to diminish the opinions of others without actually clarifying theirs or even adding any educational thought to the discussion.
Originally Posted By Mr X **Illegal aliens DO NOT have the right to due process under our law.** Well, technically speaking neither do we. All an official need do is declare you or I an "enemy combatant", and out the window it goes. Hey, maybe THAT'S a good way to handle the illegals. Heck, I'm sure the "shoot on sight" principle would fit nicely there. No native laws, no geneva convention, no international oversite. Perfect.
Originally Posted By dlkozy Thanks for the insight, peeaanuut, I think that I agree with you on that.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<I thought this was a discussion board where people discuss things-or was that just when they agree with you that they are not "bitching" but discussing?>> Okay, dlkozy. I accept that. And I will leave it up to other readers to decide whether these posts of yours were "discussing" or whether they were bitching: <<Just the fact that illegals ARE illegals means that they are criminals breaking the law. I am SICK of this PC baloney!>> <<I live in CA and we PAY for this CRIMINAL behavior everyday.>> <<And as far as sounding tough on illegals-YOU BET I AM! My Grandmother came here LEGALLY-she did ALL that was asked of her! She not only had to have a command of the ENGLISH language, she had to have a certain amount of cash in the bank, an American sponsor, illness free, and a job that was waiting for her. She then had so much time to become an American citizen. AND she had to wait her turn IN LINE to go through the process!>> Not to sway our judges, but I think that my posts were a little less deterministic than yours. <<dlkozy: there are a few here on the boards that think it is their board and not anyone elses and specifically spend time to diminish the opinions of others without actually clarifying theirs or even adding any educational thought to the discussion.>> peeaanuut, that is an uncharacteristically disingenious and unsubstantial post for you. In my criticism of dlkozy's posts, I did add my point of view. I did attack specific points. We can disagree about those, and I'll be fine about that. But please don't accuse me of feeling somehow "imperial" on this thread, or of reflexifely responding without thought. Neither is true.
Originally Posted By dlkozy >>>"Not to sway our judges, but I think that my posts were a little less deterministic than yours."<<< I have posted how this affects me personally-I don't see how you have done the same. Maybe that's why I am strong on my feelings-you just do not have the same experiences that I do. >>>" And I will leave it up to other readers to decide whether these posts of yours were "discussing" or whether they were bitching:"<<< And once again, I have not said the same about your posts.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<I have posted how this affects me personally-I don't see how you have done the same. Maybe that's why I am strong on my feelings-you just do not have the same experiences that I do.>> So are you saying that in order to have a valid opinion about immigration one needs to have a Grandmother who came here legally. In that case, I should recuse myself from this thread. And from all rational thought.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Yes, illegal aliens have a right to due process. The Consitution refers to "any person" not "any citizen" when referring to basic rights accorded to all. The U.S. Supreme Court is rife with cases on this going back to the 19th century. But let's not get too far from the subject. Darkbeer started this thread with the sole purpose of slagging illegal aliens by using the still burning fires, pathetic in its own right. Then it morphed into shooting looters on sight, and now we're presuming all looters are illegals. Way to go, Darkbeer. Who's next on the hit parade?
Originally Posted By Mr X Well, I certainly qualify because I am, myself, a legal immigrant. But hey, if you need to be "first hand" and that experiences are important to the discussion, I would say that the only two people who are really in a position to talk about the subject would be myself and WorldDisney. Nobody else has first hand info on immigration (legal or otherwise), and EVERYONES ancestors came from SOMEWHERE. (No, I'm not saying people shouldn't give their opinions, I'm just pointing out the flaw in that logic)
Originally Posted By Mr X **Yes, illegal aliens have a right to due process. The Consitution refers to "any person" not "any citizen" when referring to basic rights accorded to all. The U.S. Supreme Court is rife with cases on this going back to the 19th century.** Thanks for that clarification. I wasn't sure on the specifics but that's pretty much what I thought.
Originally Posted By dlkozy Don't put words in my mouth Inspector-you said that your >>>"posts were a little less deterministic"<<< than mine. I responded on why that might be >>>"I have posted how this affects me personally-I don't see how you have done the same. Maybe that's why I am strong on my feelings-you just do not have the same experiences that I do."<<< And IMHO, you have responded kinda nasty-I never said you couldn't have an opinion unless you had personal experience-you picked that out of the blue. I said why I was passionate about the subject. Don't use me as your excuse from bowing out of the thread.
Originally Posted By dlkozy >>>"and now we're presuming all looters are illegals..."<<< Looks like your the only one presuming that SPP-so that makes it your problem to deal with.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Since when do illegal aliens have the right to due process? " Everyone has a right to due process.
Originally Posted By dlkozy >>>"Nobody else has first hand info on immigration (legal or otherwise), and EVERYONES ancestors came from SOMEWHERE."<<< And I bet that the majority of them, if not all of them, came here LEGALLY! Heads up though, MrX, SPP does not like it when someone capitalizes a words in their posts
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Looks like your the only one presuming that SPP-so that makes it your problem to deal with." Does that mean you've softened your position?
Originally Posted By dlkozy Illegal aliens do not have the right to vote, collect SS, use our free educational system, our medical system, etc. Just like we do not have the right to use another country's systems illegally either.
Originally Posted By Mr X **Looks like your the only one presuming that SPP-so that makes it your problem to deal with** A lot of people are presuming a lot of things. Some have presumed that illegals should have less rights than "legals". Thus "shoot on sight" is okay, I'm guessing? Others have advocated the "shoot on sight" method for all looters. Or, for looters looting essential goods only (I suppose this should pertain to all, not just illegals?).
