Originally Posted By Inspector 57 BriGuy85, I'm sincerely sorry for the hurt you're feeling now. I know it was a shock and a horror to realize that the people of your state were even given the opportunity to decide your personal worth. And I know it causes deep and undescribeable feelings of sadness and hopelessness and ugliness to learn that the people who surround you have secretly voted to relegate you to a legal second-class status. I know I can't say anything that will erase the ugliness, but... Hang in there. Realize that half of the state supported you, and that the MAJORITY of the people would have voted to preserve your rights had not the Mormon Church funded a false and fear-based ad campaign.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I57, thank you for weighing in. You see, in my view, being able to articulate these answers helps fuel the fight on the light of right. These are the views that many may raise as a barrier. The more they can be answered, coupled with the continual push for equality, the greater likelyhood it will come swiftly.
Originally Posted By BriGuy85 Ive been reading everyone's posts and opinions. And I thank those who are supportive in our society. Some of these questions going around, which I've heard a million times such as "If gay people can get married, why can't people marry their pets?", are just rediculous and actually quite insulting. The commericals for Yes on 8 were completely false information (teachers are forced to teach this) When in reality theres a law in California saying teachers don't have to teach about marriage, and parents have the right to pull them out of the class. Personally I think I would WANT my kid to learn about gay marriage because it develops a more tolerated society for our future generations. Because like it or not, it's going to happen some day. Anyways, theres a huge petition going around online to bring Prop 8 back into play. Please sign it if you believe we can make a difference. <a href="http://www" target="_blank">http://www</a>. petitiononline. com/seg5130/petition. html
Originally Posted By barboy ///On the other hand, there is evidence that incestuous relationships might be harmful to the offspring produced, and by extension then, also to society./// That maybe be the more accepted cultural line most of us use but that argument is weak. --- if two brothers, two sisters, a son with a vasectomy and a mom well into menopause got together there is no offspring --- furthermore, women 60 years old are allowed to enter into relations and have children even though such pregnancies may well produce undesirable results in the offspring. HIV or mad cow carrying moms can marry and have children too. Again how is the line drawn with same gender marriage? like almost everything else....arbitrarily
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster I say any two consenting adults should be allowed to marry, even if its incestuous. I doubt many would want to do that but hey, it's a free country, right? And I 'm serious about that. I think we have far too many laws in our country that restrict more freedoms than they protect and I would like to see many of those laws go away.
Originally Posted By DAR Gay people wanting to get married? Two reasonable loving adults wanting to get married no problem. People wanting to marry their pets? No reasonable adult involved and hide your peanut buttter.
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster No, I wouldn't advocate people marrying their pets. A legal contract should still involve two parties that can actually sign the contract.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf Churro: "I say any two consenting adults should be allowed to marry..." I agree with you. However I would take out the "two" from that statement as well -- I think you know where I'm coming from ;-) Imagine the drama in the place that makes Nevada so windy!
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt What's troubling is now we're hearing reports of white gays at some protests in LA this week lashing out at blacks using the N word because of the popularity of Prop 8 with black voters. Name calling is not a good way to win people to your side. This whole thing is so depressing.
Originally Posted By imadisneygal ^^^I totally agree. I am, however, perplexed by the amount of support this proposition received from African Americans. It seems as though a group of people who have suffered discrimination would not want others to suffer in the same way. I don't get it.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt Black people are just as homophobic as anyone else. It's that simple.
Originally Posted By melekalikimaka It's the same with Mormons. They have been really discriminated against in the past and even are today. The Golden Rule is truly lost on them.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt You know, the more I think about this the more clearer it becomes to me that everyone is only interested in what is best for them, rather than what is best for the majority. If we all thought that way then we wouldn't be having this discussion. It is for this very reason that this issue should have NEVER been given to the public to decide.
Originally Posted By Mr F Those blacks were probably using the word that starts with "F" and rhymes with "Bag" on the protesters. If they couldn't handle what they were serving, then they shouldn't dish it out.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>What's troubling is now we're hearing reports of white gays at some protests in LA this week lashing out at blacks using the N word because of the popularity of Prop 8 with black voters. Name calling is not a good way to win people to your side.<< And thus the protesters slowly degenerate into an angry mob, thus guaranteeing that Prop 8 becomes permanent. Morons. You're going to lose the support you have. Get it together.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<That maybe be the more accepted cultural line most of us use but that argument is weak. --- if two brothers, two sisters, a son with a vasectomy and a mom well into menopause got together there is no offspring --- furthermore, women 60 years old are allowed to enter into relations and have children even though such pregnancies may well produce undesirable results in the offspring. HIV or mad cow carrying moms can marry and have children.>> Very good, mawnk. You've come up with a couple of "but what if?!" exceptions. They don't negate my point. <<Morons. You're going to lose the support you have. Get it together.>> Yeah. Imagine. Humans actually having an emotional response at being voted into second-class status. What's up with THAT?!
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<Black people are just as homophobic as anyone else. It's that simple.>> Actually... as a group, black Americans are MORE homophobic than white Americans. It's mostly due to the prevalence of conservative Christian religion in black US culture. It gets more complicated than that. There's the whole, "There's only so much sympathy the straight white majority will give out, and WE want it," minority-vs-minority competition going on. But mostly black anti-gay prejudice is due to the culture's tie to the church.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>Yeah. Imagine. Humans actually having an emotional response at being voted into second-class status. What's up with THAT?!<< And when your emotional response results in the ultimate failure of your cause, what then? I'm not in any way trying to minimize your feelings about this. I've been miserable about it myself since I saw the returns coming in. Being white, Protestant and straight, I'm sure I have no idea what you're going through. But dangit, man, they're in front of cameras! They are being broadcast to the world, and the world will decide whether they are worthy of support by what they see. Come across as an angry, violent, racist mob, and all the ugly things the Mormons have been saying will start to seem even more plausible to the folks at home. The time has come to stop emoting and start strategizing.
