Originally Posted By TomSawyer >>We're not talking about basic equality.<< Yes we are. You may not think that some Americans deserve equal rights, but that doesn't mean we aren't talking about basic equality.
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder "We're not talking about basic equality." This is either one of the funniest things you've ever written or the saddest. I could say dumbest as well. Of course we're talking about equality. In your effort to re-frame and avoid the core issue, you're talking about lord knows what.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <<I notice you didn't respond to this part. Wonder why.>> <Two reasons: I answered it the last time you tried to use this argument,> I'm pretty sure you didn't, but I'd be happy to see you cut and paste it. Or say it again. Lord knows saying something once hasn't stopped you (or indeed many of us) from saying it again when it comes up again. But I really don't think you did respond to this, and frankly I don't think you can. <and it's irrelevant to gay marriage.> It certainly is not. Both have to do with the denial of basic rights AND the denial of dignity - the enforcement of second-class status. <<Basic equality really shouldn't be up to voters.>> <We're not talking about basic equality.> Of course we are. And it's sad that you don't see that. Or won't. <<Which is why segregation was ended in the courts, not at the polls. And why, a la Loving, the decisions here will probably come first via the courts. A (shrinking) majority of Americans may not like it at first, as with Loving, but they'll get used to it and 50 years later wonder what all the fuss was about.>> <Wishful thinking is not an argument.> It's "wishful thinking" that segregation was ended in the courts and not at the polls? No, that's fact. And it's also a fact that one state already has gay marriage, 2 others have it in all but name, one other enacted it through the legislature but had it vetoed by a governor who will probably not last another term, AND that a majority of Americans under 30 favor it. 20 years from now that becomes "Americans under 50." It's not me who's whistling in the dark here.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <You may not think that some Americans deserve equal rights, but that doesn't mean we aren't talking about basic equality.> Please stop trying to cast me as some bigoted, heartless demon. I believe that all Americans deserve equal rights. I simply disagree with you that the benefits that go along with marriage are a right.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <This is either one of the funniest things you've ever written or the saddest. I could say dumbest as well.> Please stop making personal attacks and respond to the arguments with facts.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <Both have to do with the denial of basic rights AND the denial of dignity - the enforcement of second-class status.> No, they don't. <It's not me who's whistling in the dark here.> If that's what you want to believe, go right ahead.
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder "Please stop making personal attacks and respond to the arguments with facts." There you go again. When cornered, plead "personal attack". I was describing your comments and you know it. Matter of fact, the quote even so as much. Quit whining. <You may not think that some Americans deserve equal rights, but that doesn't mean we aren't talking about basic equality.> "Please stop trying to cast me as some bigoted, heartless demon. I believe that all Americans deserve equal rights. I simply disagree with you that the benefits that go along with marriage are a right." Boy, you musy have read that bigoted part in there, because I sure don't see that word anywhere. And you disagree because you misstate the issue yet again. Quit trying to change the argument. It IS about equal rights. PERIOD. There's absolutely no need to discuss anything else.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Gays have the EXACT same rights as all of us. So stop with the equal right BS. What can a gay person not do that I can't do that is within the law? Also, by now people must be able to see that no matter how much the gay marriage mafia stams their feet and tries to pretend Tom and Bruce being married is normal and beautiful, America ALWAYS votes this charade down. Even after 2 years of nonstop liberal media propaganda, America still votes it down. Why is that??
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <When cornered, plead "personal attack". I was describing your comments and you know it.> I accuse people of personal attacks when they make personal attacks. There's no reason to "describe" my comments. If you disagree with them, then the polite thing to do is to provide a reason why, or simply state that you disagree.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy I notive a certain poster on here likes to talk to others on here about people they don't like or agree with, rather than talking to the person directly. It would be like me talking to a friend of mine about another guy while the guy I am talking about is standing right there as I pretend he is invisible. It's a cute way to disrespect the person you don't like in a low key mannor.
Originally Posted By scottie <<Question, if you're straight, how does making gay marriage legal or illegal affect your life in any way,shape or form?>> I'm straight and I strongly believe it does affect everyone in society, you just don't see that yet. Whether it's now or in the future someone you love will be gay. You may not see it in your lifetime, but do you really want your gay great-great- grandson to not have the right to marry because he's in love with another man. It may not seem like it makes a difference to you now but what about future generations and the people you love that will still be here when you're gone? Gay sons and daughters who come from loving heterosexual moms and dads with straight friends just want them to be able to marry the one they love just like anyone else. For me it's that simple. Straight people who support it seem to do so out of love and compassion for all people. Those who oppose it seem to be doing so out of fear of certain people. That's just my opinion. Was it Chris Rock who said, "Prejudice don't make no sense, 'cause who ever you hate is gonna end up in your family."
Originally Posted By TomSawyer >>Please stop trying to cast me as some bigoted, heartless demon. I believe that all Americans deserve equal rights. I simply disagree with you that the benefits that go along with marriage are a right.<< Forget the benefits - you are trying to move the goal posts again. It's the right to marry that we're talking about.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer >>What can a gay person not do that I can't do that is within the law?<< Marry the person they love.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <Forget the benefits - you are trying to move the goal posts again.> Of course I haven't.
Originally Posted By oc_dean If one is gay, and a Texan ... I'd say - Time to get out of town. Then again ... it's saddens me to know the state of Texas always manages to "push it's way" into the limelight over such similar situations .. Time and time again ..... year ... after year .. after year. I have no desire to ever set foot into the state of Texas ..... or should I say, The COUNTRY of Texas!
Originally Posted By tiggertoo <<What can a gay person not do that I can't do that is within the law?>> Marry the person they love.
Originally Posted By tiggertoo Hmmmm...that was weird. I guess I should have turned the page before I posted. Sorry Tom.
Originally Posted By itsme >>The evidence from Scandanavia suggests otherwise ---- Weather the study is true or not let use 2 things in the news right now. If we use other countries findings and laws to base ours upon that says a lot about how strong and or alike this country is to them and how you feel about it. Just curious there are countries where you are not allowed to own a gun and things are ok, should we adopt and change cause of that? If we put it to a vote of the people and they vote it down should we respect it and thats the eend? Like in San Fran where they dont want guns, Why does that now go to court and its ok, but when a gay law goes to court, its courts trying to make laws? Amazing how some will cling to the part as it applies to them and their beliefs and if they are against it, its wrong no matter.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<What can a gay person not do that I can't do that is within the law?>> Marry the person they love.>> Not a good answer. What if I love my brother and want to marry him? What if two sisters love each other and want to get married? Is that OK? Bottom line is that gays have to live within the same laws as the rest of us. There is no discrimination here, it's a level playing field for all. What gay marriage supporters want to do is CHANGE THE RULES of what marriage is to fit their lifestyle. Fine, you change rules by going to the voters or passing new laws. So far, the voters have told the country that they don't want gay marriage by voting gay marriage down by huge margins. Of course all these people are bigots according to some people on here. This is your typical liberal in action by the way, saying things that make no sense, yet they somehow actually believe this stuff. Welcome to America. Don't like it?? Move to Canada of France. Just be sure to put your car in the garage if you do go to France.. it might get torched if you don't.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <Marry the person they love.> But they can do that. I don't believe there is a law in any state that prevents gay people from getting married. And, since the Supreme Court struck down sodomy laws, there's no law in any state that prevents a gay couple from living together, or sharing property, or even raising a family, which is unlike what the State of Virginia tried to do to the Lovings. So we're not really talking about "the right of marriage". What gay marriage advocates are talking about is forcing the state and everyone else to recognize their unions, and I just don't see that as an inalienable right.
