Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<With CapEx fixed at about $250m annually for the Disney-owned parks that isn't the case at all. Money isn't going to be diverted from more profitable business units to WDP&R.>> And why the heck not? How many times have the parks profit gone to shore up other business units? TWDC hasn't in the last 10 years had any problem at all about taking parks and resorts money and plying it into other divisions. It seems to me it's all about choice. <<You can argue whether WDP&R could afford to spend more but to suggest that other Disney business units should financially support the division is wide of the mark.>> Support P&R? I never said that. They can and are doing quite well on their own. <<Few organizations support a mature part of their business from others.>> Mature business? I think that's far from it. The theme park business can grow greatly. Spending can grow. It's all about attracting new guests, while enticing old guests to return. That doesn't happen with a stale product. That happens by being a trailblazer, like Disney always was, and not a follower as it's become.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Jay would never have said that beyond a public interview.>> Of course, you lie in public and tell the truth behind closed doors. That Corporate 101. <<The park was about doing the best they possibly could with the money available. It may not be the prettiest park on the earth but it was necessary to get it off the ground. They opted to concentrate on the attractions as best as possible hence the big boxes. It may be the weakest of the eleven parks but there is fun to be had. An attraction like CineMagique belongs in any Disney park.>> I agree. There's one true quality Disney attraction in the entire place and a couple of other 'decent' attractions. But I honestly don't know how anyone could spend more than four hours there without being bored to tears. And the fact that they think ToT and Toon Studios will be silver bullets to cure the park's ills tells me they have learned nothing from DCA's failures. <<Jay's role was to stem the losses at DLP to get the resort to survive. He achieved that with flying colors. It was a necessity to maintain fiscal responsibility. The current team can now chart a smoother course thanks to the ship that Jay left behind. It wasn't pretty but it was successful.>> If almost destroying the most beautiful MK ever created was necessary to save it, we'll have to agree to disagree. Jay didn't save the place, the prince and his money did. As for the current team, let's just say I have major concerns about their ability to deliver a quality product.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Oh, and Dreamfinder may be creepy (heck, so is Tony), but I think that character would have more appeal than Kim Possible, who appeals to 8-12 year-old girls only.>> <<Who is saying that KP is replacing Imagination? It is a test.>> No one. I was just comparing the characters. One can appeal to many demos. One appeals to tween girls. <<And the show remains very popular. I personally find it one of the best shows that WDTA has produced in years.>> OK ... tween girls and you!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Believe what you will. Matt left solely for the opportunities that Starwood have presented to him. His job was not in jeopardy and he was respected by Jay.>> Did I ever say Matt's job was in jeopardy? And I have no idea who Jay respects or doesn't. I would think only Jay could say. But you can respect people and still not want to work with them ... especially if you feel threatened by them.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Jay didn't save the place, the prince and his money did.>> Spirit. You tend to be well-informed but you are very wide of the mark there. Kingdom Holdings invested much earlier in the life of EDL and they opted not to increase their stake when given the opportunity (ie. rights issues). Jay's belt-tightening saved that resort. Nothing else.
Originally Posted By leemac <<<<Few organizations support a mature part of their business from others.>> Mature business? I think that's far from it. The theme park business can grow greatly.>> We will have to beg to disagree here. I believe that the US theme park business is "mature" under the BCG model. I don't see how the Disney can grow the business "greatly". DLR/WDW have had a great year by all accounts. I'm skeptical they can continue to post near double-digit growth in their domestic market. International growth is the only way forward.
Originally Posted By leemac <<But I honestly don't know how anyone could spend more than four hours there without being bored to tears. And the fact that they think ToT and Toon Studios will be silver bullets to cure the park's ills tells me they have learned nothing from DCA's failures.>> Well if it adds half a day to every resort-staying guest then the park has achieved its goal. It was all about getting people to stay longer (and the stats suggest that is the case). I don't think anyone is suggesting that ToT and Toon Studios are "silver bullets" but they will attract guests who haven't visited in a while. Personally I would have preferred an attraction other than ToT but it is exactly the type of E-ticket that will be tremendously popular. Much like Space Mountain was a shot in the arm I think ToT will be too.
Originally Posted By leemac <<That happens by being a trailblazer, like Disney always was, and not a follower as it's become.>> If you feel that Disneyland has been a "trailblazer" for the last 50 years then we definitely disagree. DL has struggled immensely over the years to attract guests and they tended to only come for major anniversaries. Even some of the mid-decade celebrations were poorly received. The 50th has been huge. Once October comes and goes I suspect we will be back to the normal DL crowds. The trick is finding a way to get people to visit again.
Originally Posted By leemac <<<<And the show remains very popular. I personally find it one of the best shows that WDTA has produced in years.>> OK ... tween girls and you!>> Maybe! I tell you I've spent more time watching Disney Channel in the past few years than I have ever done. Product like Kim Possible is cute for tweens but I love the humor. It is exactly what is missing from primetime sitcoms these days. Same for High School Musical. I can't believe how much I enjoyed that movie (good job too as it is coming park-side soon). That is all down to Anne Sweeney. She has repositioned networks like DC and ABC Family in the right places. I don't have a problem with the parks mining the talent at Media Networks. Characters like Kim Possible can be as enduring as Lilo if marketed correctly. And why the heck not? At least she is a decent role model. It shouldn't be solely the domain of WDFA, Pixar and WDI.
Originally Posted By leemac <<There's always money available, Lee. You as a money guy should know that. >> I do appreciate that and that is probably why I end up disagreeing with so many stances on LP. My responsibility is to continue to provide shareholder wealth first and foremost. That doesn't always compute with providing a quality experience for the guest. It is balancing both. The Company doesn't stifle creativity but it is becoming harder to justify the costs. The real growth will come from Asia and reinvestment in the US parks just isn't a practical way to get a decent ROI. Shareholders won't appreciate Disney missing the boat as China, India and its neighbors explode towards growth and individual worth closer to the West. That said HKDL wasn't the answer. I've said to Paul on numerous occasions that I felt that the Penny Bay project wasn't the best deal all round and I'm sure it will be sorted in the future. There are ten other international development projects on the boards right now and each of them is on a completely different scale to HKDL. It is just a question of which pops off the boards first.
Originally Posted By Skellington88 <<Wow. It only took them a decade to figure that out. I'm impressed. Clearly, there should be some bonuses handed out!>> Spirit of 74 deserves a paycheck for that line! Right on the money my friend.
Originally Posted By Skellington88 hey leemac if you shareholders best interests at heart..then you will invest more capital in the park or tell your bosses to do so...the parks (not counting japan) havent had a truely "MIND BLOWING" attraction since Indiana Jones and that was over 10 years ago! why do all the cool innovatie NEW non-pixar tie in rides go to japan and not anywhere else hmmm? Probably because Jay Rasolu feels that money is better put in his pocket rather then in a disney park where it can be enjoyed by millions around the globe!
Originally Posted By idleBrain <<Oh, and Dreamfinder may be creepy (heck, so is Tony), but I think that character would have more appeal than Kim Possible, who appeals to 8-12 year-old girls only.>> You know it's time to reach for the corkscrew when anyone mentions Dreamfinder, Tony Baxter, Kim Possible, and 8-12 year-old girls, all in the same sentence. My hair's gonna catch fire any second now. =8^0
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom I"m going to have to agree. Disney needs to add more to WDW. There is far too much compatition going on in the Orlando area. Not to mention what is going on elsewhere in the this country with the growth of casino villages springing up everywhere. Disney no longer corners the market on family vacations. People have money and they are eyeing other US destinations ( like the casino villages ). I also agree that Disney need to expand. China and India await. Why the hesitation?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<We will have to beg to disagree here. I believe that the US theme park business is "mature" under the BCG model. I don't see how the Disney can grow the business "greatly". DLR/WDW have had a great year by all accounts. I'm skeptical they can continue to post near double-digit growth in their domestic market. International growth is the only way forward.>> DL has had a great year, due to the 50th and the fact the place looks like it once did, although things have slowed down. WDW hasn't had as good a year, while leeching off the celeb. Discounts are plentiful for resorts, Disney even resorted to the unheard of step of dumping rooms on Priceline.com. They offered the free food package again this year, and then had to extend the booking date when they weren't selling as many as hoped. Both DL and WDW have cutback hours -- for the first-time in as long as I can recall DL has 11 p.m. summer closings except for weekends and WDW -- which did expand hours -- eliminated all midnight closings it had for July and August. But, for the most part, your point is very accurate so I won't quibble over a few details. That said, Disney is going to have to spend money on its USA parks if it's going to grow the business -- or even, just not lose market share. People stop going when the product becomes very stale (see WDW post-Millennium until the past 18 months or so). And international growth, while the smart choice longterm, is frought with its own perils as Disney has discovered in France and China. Japan was simply an exception because they are so nuts over American pop culture there, and Disney doesn't own the parks so it's not an issue financially anyway.
Originally Posted By idleBrain <<I also agree that Disney need to expand. China and India await. Why the hesitation?>> "Jay Rasulo... please call the WDC operator. Mr. Jay Rasulo... please call the WDC operator."
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Much like Space Mountain was a shot in the arm I think ToT will be too.>> Do you think they'll ever rehab Space Mountain at DLP so it doesn't cause brain damage on each flight? It's really a shame it's so rough because it is such a wonderful attraction and so much better than the USA versions.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<If you feel that Disneyland has been a "trailblazer" for the last 50 years then we definitely disagree.>> Of course I do. How can it not be? It has set the trail for everything from themed entertainment parks that also changed the way everything from malls to casinos were created. It's always either the No. 1 or 2 attended park in the USA every year. It has introduced all kinds of new technologies that WED/WDI created to the world. It's the epitomy of what a cultural icon is. So, yeah, I do believe it's been a trailblazer, although I was referring to Disney parks as a whole (not sure whether I mis-typed or not and too lazy to go look). Disney has always set the standard for themed entertainment. The past decade has shown that to not be the case so much as 'just good enough' became the Disney mantra. <<DL has struggled immensely over the years to attract guests and they tended to only come for major anniversaries. >> I haven't looked at numbers, but I've never seen DL struggling to the extent you say, except maybe during the '84 Olympics in LA. Unless we're talking about DCA ;-) <<Even some of the mid-decade celebrations were poorly received. The 50th has been huge. Once October comes and goes I suspect we will be back to the normal DL crowds. The trick is finding a way to get people to visit again.>> There doesn't need to be any trick. Simply offer Disney quality in every aspect of the park experience and add new attractions, shows, live entertainment, even food and merchandise. People will come. History is on my side on this one. Letting DL fester and rot, like Paul and Cynthia did, won't. And I'm pretty certain that Bob Iger won't let that happen again.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 Before I comment on this post, let me just say out of everything I've ever read of yours in years here on LP.com, I've got to give you props for this post. It's blatently honest and to the point, even if I disagree with parts. I respect you for placing this out there and my advice (not that you've ever wanted it) might be to save this and have it handy when you're arguing a point from your viewpoint. You may not get people to agree, but you'll likely earn a lot of respect. OK, now that the kissing up is over ... <<I do appreciate that and that is probably why I end up disagreeing with so many stances on LP. My responsibility is to continue to provide shareholder wealth first and foremost.>> Are you really Bob Iger? ;-) <<That doesn't always compute with providing a quality experience for the guest. It is balancing both. The Company doesn't stifle creativity but it is becoming harder to justify the costs.>> Agreed on all counts. I just would say that the balance you speak of has been out of whack too much over the past decade. Too much focusing on money, not enough on creativity and giving guests reasons for visiting. Also, because I DO care about fiscal responsibility, so much money has been wasted by WDI on bad concepts and bloated budgets to satisfy egos and politics. Not to mention all the other billions the company has wasted on non-core businesses. <<The real growth will come from Asia and reinvestment in the US parks just isn't a practical way to get a decent ROI. Shareholders won't appreciate Disney missing the boat as China, India and its neighbors explode towards growth and individual worth closer to the West.>> Agree 100%. I just hope Disney can get its act together before other media companies step into the proverbial void. I also want Disney to make smart choices with how it moves into these markets. Building 'brand' (I hate that term) awareness is so crucial. That has to be done before you just plop a park down and think everyone is going to love you. There are many Disney Haters here in the USA, so imagine the pitfalls that TWDC is going to face in other places like China and India. <<That said HKDL wasn't the answer. I've said to Paul on numerous occasions that I felt that the Penny Bay project wasn't the best deal all round and I'm sure it will be sorted in the future. There are ten other international development projects on the boards right now and each of them is on a completely different scale to HKDL. It is just a question of which pops off the boards first.>> I'm curious as to why you feel that way. I thought HK was the perfect place to get the toes wet before moving to the Mainland. The place looks beautiful in the pics you (and our pal TDLFAN) have taken. I'm not thrilled they built a park so short on major Disney attractions, but the park at least looks very nice as do the hotels. I am looking forward to a trip there next year. So why are you down on HKDL all of a sudden? Are you speaking the terms of the deal that Disney made weren't the best? Or the place in general?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I also agree that Disney need to expand. China and India await. Why the hesitation?>> It's not easy exporting 'American culture' to countries that have been so insular. China ... or should I say COMMUNIST China (when even FOX News has stopped using the adjective, you know what our agenda is as a country) is a very tough nut to crack. The Chinese aren't thrilled with HKDL for many reasons -- and lack of Pirates and Mansion type attractions may bother we fans but that isn't what bothers them. It's just very complicated. I would hate to see TWDC blow such a golden opportunity, though, because China could be the company's cash cow for the next 75 years if they play it right. India, also has a large growing middle class (thanks to all the outsourced jobs we've lost here!), but the political situation is volatile. I, personally, don't think building a full-fledged park is the way to go there at first. They need more of a DRE-type concept in 2-3 cities.
