Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 BTW, I am glad Leemac finally can admit that HKDL was woefully short on attractions upon opening. It's a good first step ... like HKDL is a good first step into China for TWDC.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>But McDonalds still always retains the right to buy back - buy out any franchisee...with due cause if the brand name can be hurt in any way-- and this is one BIG loophole they always hold-- as the franchisee who lost the entire country of France due to poor quality...<< Absolutely. It's too bad that in this case Disney is the one who must feel lucky for China not to kick them out without any control.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>Isn't it interesting that so much success, both creatively and financially, has come out of the Emeryville campus which resembled the old days at Disney?<< Yes. A few months ago I remember using the term ecentric workshop in describing what I believe WDI needs to go back to. It's too easy to draw the parallel with Emeryville.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 Why are we here now? Or more to the point why is TWDC where it now stands ... at a very crucial crossroads in its history? Why is the pixie dust in such short supply amongst some of Disney's biggest fans? I'll offer up two reasons why TWDC has lost its focus: Michael Eisner's desire for the company to be all things to all people and; The rise of the consultants. In some ways you can't blame Eisner, the man saw opportunities in timeshares and a cruise line, expanding Disney's park presence in Paris and Hong Kong and buying the network he always coveted. those were wise choices, even if the follow-thru wasn't always smooth. But he also arrogantly thought Disney could do anything better than anyone and branched out into all kinds of ventures which cost the company billions and allowed his attention -- and company money -- to drift away from the core of the company: animation and theme parks. This was natually aided by the 90s phenomenon known as (queue ominous music) The Rise of the Consultants. These were people who had no ties to Disney or its creative legacy, or why it became so special and unique. They were only concerned with justifying their jobs and treated the Disney product just like any other company's. As Eisner began to lose touch with the core business units of TWDC, the consultants eagerly stepped in and pushed fundamental changes through in the way Disney operated its parks. Why have stores that don't bring in huge profits, that are essentially atmospheric and add pennies to the bottom line? Why spend the money on pressure-cleaning walkways nightly? Why have full-time workers? Why buy from higher quality vendors? Why pay expensive entertainers that have union contracts? Why maintain hallways in resorts when kids are only going to spill soda on them? etc ... etc ... These were the people who began to get paid millions for telling Disney how to cut costs and basically break a product that had worked for 40 years for the company, its cast and its guests. To me, it's these two reasons we are where we are. It'll be interesting to see if Bob Iger can learn from past mistakes and take the company back to the top where it belongs instead of being just the 'Disney brand.'
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Absolutely. It's too bad that in this case Disney is the one who must feel lucky for China not to kick them out without any control.>> I wonder if Disney has gotten a firm grasp on how the Chinese do business. If recent events (i.e. Iger's damage contorl visit to HK and Shanghai) are any indication, there's reason to wonder.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>Why have stores that don't bring in huge profits, that are essentially atmospheric and add pennies to the bottom line?<< Better yet. Why not build a store expansion into an atmospheric nook and then shortly thereafter build false walls in neighboring stores causing constraints and cramped shopping conditions all because of supposed excess square footage. >>It'll be interesting to see if Bob Iger can learn from past mistakes and take the company back to the top where it belongs instead of being just the 'Disney brand.'<< So far he is doing great. Whether it is because he has great judgement, he has learned from past mistakes, he is being guided by people above and below him, and/or a mixture of all, he hasn't disappointed me yet. ChiMike's January 2005 wishlist: Fix WDFA. Bob- Buy Pixar ChiMike- CHECK Get rid of Strategic Planning. CHECK Cut loose certain Eisner employees. CHECK Make content King. Bob- Dozen comments. ChiMike- CHECK Retire Marty. CHECK Cut down on theatrical releases. CHECK Streamline the studio. CHECK Gut WDI. PENDING
Originally Posted By idleBrain <<The problem becomes when too much power is concentrated in a small team that have known each other for years and have a particular style of doing business.>> Whoa. Lee... you just described Team Fitzgerald. Was that intentional?
Originally Posted By danyoung >Dan, this may be the most profound words I've ever seen you post.< Does that mean you're gonna come down and buy me a martini for my birthday in September? I'll be at the Rose & Crown, 2 shows nightly, tip your waitresses & bartenders. >Cars is flawed IMO. Particularly in the storytelling and I am a little worried about that.< While I enjoyed Cars, it's easily my least favorite of the Pixar offerings. I was worried when I heard all about Lasseter's love of cars, and how he was going to bring that in as a major factor. I could care less about cars, so that entire angle is totally lost to me. The Pixar films have been so successful because they are built around common themes - friendship (Toy Story), parental love (Nemo), and the outcast's attempt to find redemption and acceptance (Bugs). You could say the theme of Cars was about learning humility in the face of great fame, but then that's not really such a universal theme. I also am hoping that they can get back on track next summer - Brad Bird's the man!
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <>>But McDonalds still always retains the right to buy back - buy out any franchisee...with due cause if the brand name can be hurt in any way-- and this is one BIG loophole they always hold-- as the franchisee who lost the entire country of France due to poor quality...<< Absolutely. It's too bad that in this case Disney is the one who must feel lucky for China not to kick them out without any control.< I understand Disney's ( and all other large corps ) attraction to China based on population alone. But as someone who has been there on business, this landscape is far different than Japan, or even Paris...there are many inherent dangers there. Start with copyright laws ( or law thereof), a general distain for western life by the ruling party, and most people. A weekly wage that is not going to allow the vast majority of that 100B to attend any Disney park ( as if most have any idea or care what it is) - .... I am fairly OK with the HK operation...even though there are surely potential mines there also, bt to expand further is surely risky...and yet we all know it is going to happen. If China suddenly decides that they do not like what is going on with the park...who brokers that peace agreement ? Likelihood of that happening, maybe not exceptionally high, but possible.. of course IMHO.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad Disney knows a lot more about China than I do. Oh wait...nevermind, I just remembered the Family Channel buyout deal. Which brings to mind GO.COM...I guess there are plenty of mistakes to be made by even the larest corporations around the world.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^^^^^^^ there are, and many companies have made them already...some recovered from them, others not so lucky financially. Not saying that all other places whould be off limits, but I still question if the market is really there at this point in time. And if it one where we expect them to grow into it, is that really the best investment today ? People with a lot more at stake in it than us are making thhat decision, I just hope they are not blinded by CPA charts showing a billion people buying princess outfits and plush Pooh bears.
Originally Posted By idleBrain <<A few months ago I remember using the term ecentric workshop in describing what I believe WDI needs to go back to.>> Was this during the first Michael Eisner interview on CNBC with Bran Ferren? Sounds like something Bran would say to describe Imagineering. I managed to catch much of the interview, even though it was a definite struggle to sit through Eisner's interruptions. I was amazed, however, at the self-restraint exhibited by Mr. Ferren, especially when Eisner attempted to compliment the R&D work his department produced, just before Eisner kicked them all to the curb. Whatever kept Bran from reaching across the table to strangle the living sh*t outta Mikey is beyond my comprehension.
Originally Posted By Skellington88 I believe it is time for to break the powerhold of TEAM FITZGERALD!
Originally Posted By leemac <<BTW, I am glad Leemac finally can admit that HKDL was woefully short on attractions upon opening.>> To caveat that I have always said that I would have preferred more attractions on opening. I still think that the local management team were the biggest problem for the resort. One misstep after another. I remembering being out in HK most of that summer and it was one PR disaster after another. It was just botched from start to finish despite Disney bringing Ogilvy PR in to help them out. The world's most recognizable PR agency (and part of the second largest advertising agency in the world) and they couldn't help Disney out of their own problems.
Originally Posted By leemac <<A few months ago I remember using the term ecentric workshop in describing what I believe WDI needs to go back to.>> There are serious dangers ahead if WDI regresses to that type of operation. R&D isn't cheap and should be targeted on achievable goals rather than burning cash on projects that are either impractical or unachievable. The cost of developing technology like EMV (for IJA) and Test Track was hugely expensive and the company hasn't really benefited substantially from that. Both are also extremely costly to maintain (Journey at TDS is allegedly the most expensive attraction to maintain in the world). I always found Bran to be a kooky individual. I'm happier knowing that the R&D team are now a much smaller group that are concentrating their efforts on projects like the Living Characters Program.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >Dan, this may be the most profound words I've ever seen you post.< <<Does that mean you're gonna come down and buy me a martini for my birthday in September? I'll be at the Rose & Crown, 2 shows nightly, tip your waitresses & bartenders.>> I would really like to (no sarcasm here, as I know you are challenged in that area!)... but it's just not a good time for me. It seems like a lot of my buddies are going to be there that week too. Things can always change, though. If there's one thing I've learned it's anything's possible! >Cars is flawed IMO. Particularly in the storytelling and I am a little worried about that.< <<While I enjoyed Cars, it's easily my least favorite of the Pixar offerings. I was worried when I heard all about Lasseter's love of cars, and how he was going to bring that in as a major factor. I could care less about cars, so that entire angle is totally lost to me. The Pixar films have been so successful because they are built around common themes - friendship (Toy Story), parental love (Nemo), and the outcast's attempt to find redemption and acceptance (Bugs). You could say the theme of Cars was about learning humility in the face of great fame, but then that's not really such a universal theme. I also am hoping that they can get back on track next summer - Brad Bird's the man!>> I didn't think Cars was Pixar's worst. Bug's Life has always left me cold and it still does. To me, Pixar does best when it has films with a lot of heart -- much like Disney's best classics -- like Monsters Inc and Toy Story 2. But since every summer 'blockbuster' has let me down in one way or another, and Michael Mann's disaster Miami Vice is just the latest, I can't rip Cars. It had great animation, a good story, top vocal talent ... it just didn't add up to a great film. It happens.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I understand Disney's ( and all other large corps ) attraction to China based on population alone. But as someone who has been there on business, this landscape is far different than Japan, or even Paris...there are many inherent dangers there. Start with copyright laws ( or law thereof), a general distain for western life by the ruling party, and most people. A weekly wage that is not going to allow the vast majority of that 100B to attend any Disney park ( as if most have any idea or care what it is) - ....>> No. COMMUNIST China isn't like any market Disney has ever faced. They have already made numerous mistakes and missteps in dealing with the political and cultural landmines. They have filled the Paranoia Bag ... and yet they still don't appear to 'get it.' A great man once told me that underestimation is the fool's addiction. I see a lot of that with how Disney is attempting to rid themselves of their problems. And I still see execs making the same mistakes. <<I am fairly OK with the HK operation...even though there are surely potential mines there also, bt to expand further is surely risky...and yet we all know it is going to happen. If China suddenly decides that they do not like what is going on with the park...who brokers that peace agreement ? Likelihood of that happening, maybe not exceptionally high, but possible.. of course IMHO.>> In this political climate, anything's possible. Don't you wonder why you haven't heard anything about the fact China won't allow Disney to release PoC there here? Like I said ... lot's of hurdles and Jay and his exec team don't look like they're in shape to jump over them.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Not saying that all other places whould be off limits, but I still question if the market is really there at this point in time. And if it one where we expect them to grow into it, is that really the best investment today ?>> And wouldn't it be more prudent to enter the market slowly and with due dilligence? Why spend billions on the brick and mortar when you can spend less by expanding (forgive me for using this much-hated term) brand awareness first. Penetrate the market with your other (ie. non-park) products before making the investment with parks. People like to joke (or not) about the embarrassment Disney would have faced if Euro Disney went belly-up, but think about it. Do you really think it would be good to see a Disney castle in some far Chinese province surrounded by weeds or turned into a mall because the area couldn't support it? Can you imagine what that would do to 'the brand?' <<People with a lot more at stake in it than us are making thhat decision, I just hope they are not blinded by CPA charts showing a billion people buying princess outfits and plush Pooh bears.>> Why wouldn't they? Why would you assume the decision-makers are any smarter now then when they overbuilt WDW resorts or built parks like DSP and DCA or killed animation by diluting 'the brand?' The only major decision Iger has made in his tenure was to buy Pixar, and most people consider that a no-brainer. Recently, he decided to pull back production at the Studios. Considering the films Disney has put out in the past 5-6 years, again, that doesn't seem like a very tough choice. Now, China ... well, China is a whole lot tougher fortune cookie to crack. It requires visonary leadership and someone who also understands that sometimes it's smart to dip the toes into the pool before you dive in headfirst. But what do I know?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 In fairness to the Disney Exec team,, I don't think any Exec team for any corporation ( maybe Coke who's reallybeen there a while) - is prepared for all the nuances..and no oneis prepared if they just decide they want you out..
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<To caveat that I have always said that I would have preferred more attractions on opening.>> Ah ... the fine-print qualifier. Yep. I might recall that. But it was under pages of legalise ;-) <<I still think that the local management team were the biggest problem for the resort. One misstep after another.>> Why is it always the locals at fault? Whether it's Tokyo, Paris or, now, Hong Kong? Why isn't it ever the fault of TWDC? <<I remembering being out in HK most of that summer and it was one PR disaster after another. It was just botched from start to finish despite Disney bringing Ogilvy PR in to help them out. The world's most recognizable PR agency (and part of the second largest advertising agency in the world) and they couldn't help Disney out of their own problems.>> I really shouldn't comment on this ... so I won't ... right now.
