Originally Posted By deadmentellnotales I guess we will find out in the next few days... of course someone will have to go to DL and do the research, any takers?
Originally Posted By dltraveler While I think it's true that fastpass increases crowds, I don't agree with some of the other anti-fastpass arguments. The point about wasted queues really only has value on two rides: Indy and Roger Rabbit, and fastpass should have never been installed on Roger Rabbit in the first place (but that's another topic). While it is a shame to be rushed through the Indy queue, it's not fair to judge the whole system based on one ride. Regarding the creating of a two-tier system of those who are "in-the-know" and those who aren't, I don't find that valid. The system is documented in many places, and guests can ask any cast member to be enlightened. Surely one time of wisking past a stand-by line goes a long way to making that guest think favorably about fastpass. Regarding people who don't show up in the morning being cheated. Well...tough. That's the way things work. Anyone who's ever been to any themepark knows it's best to get there early. Their lack of planning doesn't gain my sympathy. I don't really know if fastpass increases lines for other rides or not. In our experience, we get a few FPs and yes, we ride a few other rides in the meantime, but eventually, we just spend a lot of time wandering around, watching shows, eating, etc. Somehow the additional time we gain from not waiting in line takes the pressure off. We don't feel like we need to hurry to the next ride, rather, we can take things leisurely. Maybe we're weird, and this is the exception rather than the norm, but does anyone know? We don't have data, so it's purely speculation on this one. Personally, I love fastpass. When fastpass was introduced, we went from waiting an hour in line pre-fastpass, to meandering the park and then hopping on the same ride after a five minute wait. For us, our park experience was vastly improved. While I do think that FastPass was overused (pooh, roger rabbit, etc), I would be extremely dissapointed should splash, indy, or soarin lost their fastpasses.
Originally Posted By deadmentellnotales I've said this before but i would love to see a system where you got a bunch of fastpasses at one time for 3 hour windows that overlap. This way you know your guaranteed at least those ride + a few others, this would eliminate the need for individual fast pass which could make for holding areas for those fatpassers who seem to love hanging out at the ride etrance for thier time to come up.
Originally Posted By DisneyManInSeattle I've always wondered -- do anti-fastpass people use fastpass?
Originally Posted By tiggertoo <<That's the way things work. Anyone who's ever been to any themepark knows it's best to get there early. Their lack of planning doesn't gain my sympathy.>> The same goes for those who complain about long pre-fastpass lines, though. You hate the 60 minute line? Tough...if you got to the park early enough, you wouldn't have had to wait in such a long line. I use FP...you have to with everyone else using it...but as a former CM on a FP attraction, I can tell you it causes a ton of headaches. Things just seem to run much smoother during periods without FP and no one ever complained about the apparently long line. I recall a small family during a period when our FP was down. They saw the line and gasped at its physical length. They asked why we didn't have FP. After reassuring them that the wait will be much less than they imagine. Twenty minutes later, I saw them getting off (entrance and exit were merged during the construction) and asked them about the wait. The gentleman came up to me and quietly stated that this ride doesn’t need fastpass. BINGO
Originally Posted By deadmentellnotales Good to hear, it always amazes me to see people using fastpass on buzz
Originally Posted By Autopia Deb I'm not rabidly against FP, but I think the park would be better with out it. Especially in places where it leads to congestion, such as Indy. But yes I do use it, if I have to put up with the drawbacks I might as well enjoy the small advantage.
Originally Posted By deadmentellnotales I'd much rather see people with a problem again FP protest it by not using it, then I'd get more ride just kidding, though I used to object to it before I had a pass for many of the same reason listed above, but now I go to DL to experiance it in itself not just a few rides so I take a few FP's but seldom really use the thing all out.
Originally Posted By woody No one says the best reasons for Fast Pass should go. This happens in combination a lot. (1) It runs out many times for the popular rides (so what are you gonna do!) Then (2) The Standby Lines are longer than they would be otherwise if there are no Fast Passes.... So it ruins your day when you arrive late into the park as a Pass Holder. It makes it impossible to enjoy a few popular rides like Space Mountain.
Originally Posted By deadmentellnotales Yeah that has happened to me, though I usually try to get Space mountain in right before closing and just ride buzz until I'm ready on those day when we get there late, otherwise it's jungle cruise w/ the wife el romantico or fantasmic, indy then pirates and one last ride on buzz
Originally Posted By Autopia Deb Even tho I've been a passholder on every D-land trip since '89 or 90, I just live too far away not to make a day of it every time I go. 2 to 3.5 hours each way is a lot of drive time to not make the most of our visit. And getting there before the rope drops on a weekday going through commuter traffic? I wish!
Originally Posted By basas <<I've always wondered -- do anti-fastpass people use fastpass?>> Yes...because FP is the thing that has made waiting in stand-by (regular) lines so unbearable. I hope WDW begins some of these FP reduction plans.
Originally Posted By JuiceMonkey <<I've always wondered -- do anti-fastpass people use fastpass?>> Yes. It's something like being addicted to cigarettes.
Originally Posted By monorailblue I remember going to the park as a kid not quite old enough to be let loose for an entire day. My friend and I (or a brother of mine and I, or some combination like that) would typically be let go for 2 or 3 hour stretches, with a designated re-group/check-in time and place. And we ran wild, but the spectre of that have-to-be-there-time was always looming. Until about 30 or 45 minutes before that time, we just moved about and did whatever caught our fancy--rides, shows, arcades, food, whatever muse struck. But, with just a small window left on our freedom, we had to think, stress, plan, and constantly watch the minute hand. Which part of the run-free block can you imagine was the best? Enter FastPass. Now, everyone's entire day is driven and driven mad by the almighty clock--the hour and minute control everything that is done. Oh no! We can get a new FP in 10 minutes, and if we don't, they might run out! Oh no! We want to use our Space FPs before our Splash ones, but they are on opposite sides of the park! Result of both of these scenarios? You race against time from one end to another, from one machine to another, from one "time saving experience" to another, and miss out on all the fun that SHOULD and COULD be found in between. Now, I realize I'm being hyperbolic, so no need to point that out. FP is largely a magic killer. Waiting in line is not--it builds excitement and anticipation, and sets the stage and story. Is it exciting? Of course not. But you usually get something in exchange for that tedium--freedom from the incessant clock, freedom to wander, freedom to enjoy the carefully orchestrated build-up to the Attraction experience. These things are killed by standby lines because they move usually less than 1/2 as fast as lines used to, and are typically accomanied by a steady stream of people walking right by you--which, whether it is or isn't--feels very unfair. Just my opinion. And, yes, I do use FP. I think carpool lanes are bad policy, but I still use those, too. ;o)
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 "The solution is not to eliminate FP, but should be to design the ride queues so that those who don't use FP can enjoy the queues themselves. I never understood why they couldn't load FP people from the exits, or a completely different area, or something creative like that. Then, on a ride like Indy, you've still got the immersive queue experience if you don't use FP. That's the tradeoff you get from using FP: get on the ride quicker, lose the queue experience. At the same time this idea also gets the standby crowds out of the main walkways and the heat. Am I missing something here? Why would this not work?" Actually, I think you're right. The thing is that Fastpass was fit onto existing attractions. That, to me, is where they fail...when the attraction was not built with Fastpass in mind. The newer attractions with two lines work better because there are two separate areas, and both are a bit shorter than one long standby line on an older pre-Fastpass attraction. Indy is a great example of this, as it was designed without anticipating Fastpass, so there is one massive standby line, but an additional line grafted on that was not intended. It seems to not work that well at Disneyland, but much better at WDW. Maybe it's because of the smaller space, or maybe it's the guest patterns, but I do think it should be removed from Disneyland if it is not doing what it should (getting guests off the walkways and into stores or restaurants).
Originally Posted By cheesybaby monorailblue nailed it IMO. With FP a trip to the park is an exercise in day management. You used to be able to go to a land, do all the attractions there for a while, get immersed in the themeing of the land and all the attractions (major and minor) that contributed to that story. You'd finish a land off and move on to the next one. With FP you go to TL, get a FP for Space, ride Buzz and Star Tours but then move on to the next land only to return hours later for your Space FP return. This kills the flow of immersion for both TL and whatever lands you did after TL. If you want to just avoid FP and be standby-only to let each land immerse you like the old way, you still can: only the line for Space is twice as long as it used to be or should be. Just as every E-ticket line will be all day long.
Originally Posted By indysoarin19 So the rides that would be FP-equipped this fall are: Splash Space HMH Thunder Buzz Autopia Roger Rabbit So that's 7 attractions, but if you take out Autopia, Roger and HMH (HMH because its seasonal, Autopia to improve efficiency and RR because no one uses it), you end up with 4 FP attractions with a relatively even spread throughout the Park. Splash and Thunder on the westside, Space and Buzz on the east. That could cause a more even distribution of FP holders.
Originally Posted By SlikRick Everyone has been giving solid arguments for both sides of fastpass. In the recent arguments, I feel like the poster thinks that fastpass times are limited to the window. What I mean is if a fastpass for Space Mountain has a return window of 12:50-1:50, that you must use it between those times. In truth, according to "The Unofficial Guide to Disneyland 2006", the above fastpass could be used from 12:50 until the park closes. I am just saying this for everyone who didn't know this trick about the fastpass.
Originally Posted By monorailblue ^^^ I asume #58 is partially in reference to my previous post. I think the no-end-time-enforcement is actually one of the worst aspects of the system, in the global sense. The possibliity that 5000 people could wait until 10:00 p.m. to hit Space is obviously not what the system was designed to do. I think a one hour window is very fair, and the cut-off time should be enforced. If we have to err, I think we should ALWAYS err in favor of letting the standby line move. But that doesn't mean that Guests' fundamental experience doesn't weigh down under the almighty clock; indeed, I've used my fair share of passes late, but I'm always thinking--OK, should I be getting another one now, or using one now, or where the heck am I supposed to be right now???????????? Frenetic craziness is not as much fun as pleasant leisure to me.
Originally Posted By woody >>"The solution is not to eliminate FP, but should be to design the ride queues so that those who don't use FP can enjoy the queues themselves. I never understood why they couldn't load FP people from the exits, or a completely different area, or something creative like that."<< No matter how great the Indy queue line is, it is not the attraction. Indy isn't a walk through ride, although they could have design that as well. Loading people through the exits is how they are handling the single riders at Indy and Splash. It doesn't exactly help your argument since the people are entering the ride from the exits, thus bypassing the queue lines. NOT CREATIVE. Of course, you could also be referring to parallel lines, thus Fast Pass guests can quickly go through the same line as the Standby guests, but what use is that? They are quickly going through the queue so the idea gets defeated by circumstance. You want creativity? Eliminate the Fast Passes. Go back to what was great before. Then Disney will go back to creating nice queues, not like what they did at DCA where queue lines are ignored for Fast Passes.
