Originally Posted By brotherdave >>Garfield?! HA! Why doesn't he have a theme park attraction? That's the real issue here!<< Obviously, you've never been to Kennywood near Pittsburgh! <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNv3_ZotdFI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...3_ZotdFI</a> The ride system is classic, built in 1901, but the ride is, um, a little "cheesy"... Better hurry, the ride may get rethemed into something else in a few years.
Originally Posted By leobloom Wow, that Garfield ride looks like crap. And it still looks better than the current Imagination ride with Figment.
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<And it still looks better than the current Imagination ride with Figment.>> Aw, come on!
Originally Posted By Bolna <<The same short sighted DOMs and apologists who cannot see that a)Having two world class resorts in the same town means pretty much double the amount of attractions and leisure activities and THAT'S A GOOD THING!!! and b)Competition makes BOTH parties have to lift their game and provide MORE and BETTER product for their guests and THAT'S A GOOD THING!!! I mean, hell, come live in Australia. Our "world class theme park" resembles Nara Dreamland.>> Good point, and it reminded me of Dave's enthusiasm about Europapark and Phantasialand and their hotels in particular. These hotels were built to compete with DLP, they were the first ones ot introduce themed hotels in combination with a theme park to the European market. And now it is the thing everyone does. The result: some truly beautiful places!
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Not quite. There has been a competition war before Universal even came to town." Of course there was, which is basically my point. Whatever the rivalry is about between Disney and Universal I doubt if it's as dramatic as some people here make it seem. All I'm saying is that the online debates about the two resorts strike me as being overblown. Disney is the one to beat and each time Universal produces something that resonates with the hard core theme park fans and tops it there is a fair amount of cheering from that segment of the audience. It's like reading posts from rabid sports fans rooting for their favorite teams. "Quite frankly it's a win win for me. If Avatar means Disney is trying to step up their game that's great." Pretty much what I'm thinking.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>All I'm saying is that the online debates about the two resorts strike me as being overblown. Disney is the one to beat and each time Universal produces something that resonates with the hard core theme park fans and tops it there is a fair amount of cheering from that segment of the audience. It's like reading posts from rabid sports fans rooting for their favorite teams<< I think what you are seeing in the sites you are more than likely visiting are long time Disney fans who can appreciate the efforts made on behalf of Universal by former Disney employees. Long time Disney fans who have been unhappy with Disney's recent efforts in earning their business who are enamored by Universal's outwardly attempts to succeed with Disney's old formula. The old formula that Disney themselves have cast away because it didn't make them "enough" money. I guess that could be somehow tied to sports fans, but to me, it is simply the encouragement of the group who is trying hard. Encouragement by those who always cheered effort and positive output. What, I assume, is so disconcerting for some is not that the cheering has grown or shrunk by a group of people, only that it has shifted away from Disney. For me, rightfully so. SJHYM has echoed it better than anyone, he, like me, could not imagine being here in 2011 and enjoying Universal so much more than WDW. It's quite unbelievable but true. Now DLR is an entirely different matter. I think the point really only centers around what has been occurring in Orlando. ... And as I said on the other thread, I think it is wonderful that Disney is trying to "get back into the game" to use your example.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "SJHYM has echoed it better than anyone, he, like me, could not imagine being here in 2011 and enjoying Universal so much more than WDW. It's quite unbelievable but true." Is there anything wrong with that? I used to like Coke, but now I prefer Pepsi. Although the rivalry between those two brands is legendary, I'm pretty certain that the people running those businesses aren't laying awake at night wondering what the competition's next move will be. "Now DLR is an entirely different matter. I think the point really only centers around what has been occurring in Orlando." And that may be what's missing for be in some of these discussions. I live too far away to really understand the dynamics of the various resorts from the standpoint of locals and people who visit Orlando frequently.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>Is there anything wrong with that? I used to like Coke, but now I prefer Pepsi. Although the rivalry between those two brands is legendary, I'm pretty certain that the people running those businesses aren't laying awake at night wondering what the competition's next move will be.<< Of course there is nothing wrong with that, it's happened to me! I reward hard work and ingenuity with my consumer dollars and limited recreation time. As far as competitive pressures between Coke and Pepsi, I would, yes, say that they are constantly trying to chip away at each others marketing share through revamping and refining their marketing efforts as well as through their distributor network. Just as WDW is all too aware of activity that occurs down the street. Burbank has been given guided tours of Harry Potter! Universal knew before any of us that Avatar was going to Disney. They were also trying to secure Avatar. To say that there isn't a vigilant approach towards the competition is somewhat naive. That's not to say that Disney doesn't look at Universal as some sort of annoying gnat. My guess would be all those Harry Potter wands and tshirts floating through Fantasyland or showing up on the ToT onride pics have turned the gnat into the neighbor's barking dog at 3am.
Originally Posted By Bolna <<And that may be what's missing for be in some of these discussions. I live too far away to really understand the dynamics of the various resorts from the standpoint of locals and people who visit Orlando frequently.>> One thing I noticed, especially this year even more than last year: I regularly look at trip reports over on the Disboards and have done so for years now. Never before Harry Potter opened have I seen so many "typical" WDW families spending days at Universal as part of their trip. It started last year, but as I said, my impression is that it is even getting more common this year and most people seem to enjoy it a lot and not so few are talking about returning for a longer visit to Universal on their next trip. I know it is not at all hard facts, but for me it seems to show a shift in perspective: people are leaving Disney property again. I am sure that Disney does not like it after they tried so hard to get people to spend all of their time at WDW with Magical Express and Magic-Your-Way and the Dining Plan.
Originally Posted By markonefive Avator story in Disney terms = Pocahontas. Visually amazing movie, but one dimensional characters and simplistic plot. But definitely fits in with Animal Kingdom respect for nature theme. With James Cameron putting his name to it, and his ego, I don't think he will let Disney do anything half way, and he probably has access to a lot of technical expertise and cutting edge development. And Disney seems willing to put in the big bucks. Definitely has potential.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "To say that there isn't a vigilant approach towards the competition is somewhat naive." Except that I didn't say that. Disney had competitors in Orlando long before Universal arrived on the scene, and we all know Disney/MGM was fast tracked as soon as it was learned that Universal would be Disney's neighbor, so none of this is new. What I'm getting at is there is a personal and emotional tone that permeates the discussions about the rivalry between the two resorts. There is real competition for sure, but to me it seems hyped up by an emotionally involved fan base. "My guess would be all those Harry Potter wands and tshirts floating through Fantasyland or showing up on the ToT onride pics have turned the gnat into the neighbor's barking dog at 3am." Maybe. Does it bother Bellagio management when guests check in wearing a branded baseball cap from the Hard Rock Hotel? Is DLR management bothered by guests sporting Legoland or Sea World tees the parks in Anaheim? Again, I wonder if that sort of thing ruffles the feathers of Disney's management as much as it bothers Disney's fans.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "I know it is not at all hard facts, but for me it seems to show a shift in perspective: people are leaving Disney property again. I am sure that Disney does not like it after they tried so hard to get people to spend all of their time at WDW with Magical Express and Magic-Your-Way and the Dining Plan." I'm sure they don't, especially if it's taking a toll on guest spending and revenues. With that said, WWoHP is not the last word in the competition between the two resorts.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>Except that I didn't say that.<< I know you didn't. I don't think you are naive. Simply making a point >>Disney had competitors in Orlando long before Universal arrived on the scene, and we all know Disney/MGM was fast tracked as soon as it was learned that Universal would be Disney's neighbor, so none of this is new.<< Now you're making my point. >>What I'm getting at is there is a personal and emotional tone that permeates the discussions about the rivalry between the two resorts. There is real competition for sure, but to me it seems hyped up by an emotionally involved fan base.<< And that's what I try to explain 5 posts back. I don't think it is emotional fans or sports fans hyping up corporate competitiveness towards market share. Well at least not the level headed fans. I think it is long time Disney fans finding another organization who is using the Disney playbook that worked; its business strategy turning them into Disney fans themselves - - while at the same time Disney is tossing the playbook out for the new way of doing business. That new way, is going over like an anvil over W.E. Coyote, so the result is a lot of people such as myself, Hokie, Leo, SJHYM, Spirit, etc. all speaking glowingly about Universal. I'm sure the effect is multiplied on other boards. I'm just trying to show that it is a natural evolution or shifting that isn't just uber fanboy hype. I think the macro trend is pretty evident in terms of how the general public has reacted in terms of vacationing in Orlando. Our internet discussions are simply a amplified microcosm of that trend. I say this all at the same time that I simply wanted to remind that the two resorts are extremely vigilant in what the other is doing, for marketing tactics, to ticket prices, to food prices, to hotel packages, to entertainment, to hiring practices. >>Maybe. Does it bother Bellagio management when guests check in wearing a branded baseball cap from the Hard Rock Hotel?<< No because it is a different business model, that model is setup like a shopping mall where you want everyone to stop in for free but make a purchase (wagering). There is no gate, there is no captured audience for food/beverage/merchandise. >>Is DLR management bothered by guests sporting Legoland or Sea World tees the parks in Anaheim?<< I think they would rather see a guest promoting a Disney "brand" as well as knowing that the customer, err, guest, spent their limited resources on Disney's marked up product. So yes, I think the question at times is asked, "We have been seeing a lot of Legoland merchandise on our guests, what are we not doing that Legoland is? How can we make our own goods more attractive?" It's also might again be the big #1 leader not being threatened by the smaller folks nipping at their heels. In the case of Orlando, the HP addition has changed that nipping view for at least Universal. >> Again, I wonder if that sort of thing ruffles the feathers of Disney's management as much as it bothers Disney's fans. << I agree with you there Hans, that the fans seem to personalize it more, at least a small subset of them. I just don't think that very small subset is a replacement for the notion that the corporations are fighting very very hard for marketshare. As the economy stays flat or down, it is even more important. Every little percentage point Universal gains is a huge shift for them in relation to where they have been, and a huge loss at the margins for Disney in relation to where they have been.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt All excellent points ChiMike. Disney's 4th Quarter figures will be announced soon, so it won't be long before we have some idea just how big the impact of WWoHP has been on WDW.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 Disney was so worried about Universal when it opened that it rented rooms at the hotel on Kirkman with two tall towers and had CM's who did nothing but sit there all day and count cars entering the parking lot. Also, they had folks who hung around the front gates doing counts of guests. I had a friend who did both. During Universal's previews I ran into a mgr (who is now a VP) at the park. When I asked him what he was doing there he told me that he was working. Later he told me that he had to do a detailed report on the park and send it to California. I don't think Disney worries too much about any of the competition anymore. I wish they did. I think it would make them a better company. We just made reservations at Lowe's Royal Pacific at Universal for this weekend. We got two nights for less than a single night at the Poly and two nights at Port Orleans Riverside. We are very excited. This will be our first time staying at Universal. I will report back, but based on our walk thru last weekend we are expecting a great stay.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 The other things I would say again is that this has been the first year that I have heard guests say they are coming to Orlando and only doing Universal. I fly a lot, especially the NYC to Orlando route and on every flight I have met a family that was doing just Universal. Several of them said that the lack of new things at Disney helped them make that decision plus their kids really wanted to do Harry Potter.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt I don't think Disney worries too much about any of the competition anymore. I wish they did. I think it would make them a better company." A better company or a better operator in Florida specifically? I think the company's theme park/resort arm is still second to none. However, their operations in Florida, although mammoth, are obviously facing some pretty stiff competition on a multitude of levels. God help them if Universal ever decides to launch a cruise line.
