Originally Posted By alexbook >>Seriously, if and when DP and I get married, I can assure you the service will not include the phrase "So there, LDS!"<< Well said.
Originally Posted By ecdc SPP nailed it. Mormons continue to think this is like we're debating tax policy or something. At every turn, they act shocked at the hatred people now have for them. What they did was more than "rude" - it was terribly, terribly cruel. They will be remembered in history alongside the George Wallaces, but they just don't get that. People are going to be angry at them for a long time. And I remember many of them quite clearly saying they were prepared for that since they knew they were doing the right thing. But now that it's here and they truly are despised because of this, they whine about the treatment. And yet, everything they've experienced still doesn't match the cruelty they've inflicted.
Originally Posted By ecdc And I'm sorry, but discussing opposition to gay rights is on-topic. Because anywhere that gay marriage passes and is upheld by the courts, there will be those misguided souls who try and stop it. It's a losing cause, and they've even acknowledged that, but they do it anyway without regard to the lives their hurting. That makes the movement even more heartless - "We know we're not going to win, but we're taking as many people down with us as possible." How Christian.
Originally Posted By utahjosh < "We know we're not going to win, but we're taking as many people down with us as possible."> That's not the attitude, no matter how much you wish to demonize us that way.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>That's not the attitude, no matter how much you wish to demonize us that way.<< Josh, you specifically have said in the past that you know gay marriage will eventually pass and that opponents will lose. So then, what exactly is the attitude behind treating two people in love with such hatred?
Originally Posted By utahjosh <So then, what exactly is the attitude behind treating two people in love with such hatred?> No hatred involved, sorry. More demonizing of your opponent.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>No hatred involved, sorry. More demonizing of your opponent.<< I saw that coming a mile away. Hatred is expressed through actions, Josh. If the Missourians who issued the extermination order against Mormons said, "We don't hate them. We're just trying to protect our state," would you really believe them? The disconnection from the cruelty and hatefulness of your actions continues.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <I saw that coming a mile away.> It's 'cuz you're so smart. <f the Missourians who issued the extermination order against Mormons said, "We don't hate them. We're just trying to protect our state," would you really believe them?> Actually, yes, in many possible cases. However, "kill Mormons on the spot" and "don't allow gay marriage" are two very, very different things.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "You are continuing to be rude and overbearing, yourself, you smarmy overconfident punk. There is some rude for you." Hmmm.... looks like someone struck a nerve.
Originally Posted By utahjosh He did strike a nerve. I blew up and then quickly apologized for it, which was then rejected.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder 'Cuz you don't mean it. If you did, you'd disavow your stance on gay marriage. Here's a simple question. Gays would be more than happy to leave you alone if you would let them alone. Why can't you do that?
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt Because the Lord told them to? A lot of Christians feel that it's their obligation to work against things they consider to evil. Same sex acts are go against fundamental Christian teachings, therefore many Christians see no contradiction in taking a stance against something that they see as a threat to their beliefs while professing their 'love' for 'sinners'.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 It's also hard when "sin" is a subjective thing. Your religion might tell you one thing is sinful, while another religion is fine with it. So, when something comes up like "hate the sin, love the sinner", it's very difficult for the "sinner" to undertand that it's not supposed to be hateful. If the "sinner" doesn't have the same belief system, they can only wonder why someoby is so upset at their actions, which they see as normal. Basically, from the oustide looking in, it all comes off as "hate" because it's hard to separate the "sinner" and the "sin", especially if it's something biological. So, for those that wonder why there is such a negative backlash against a particular religion, please understand that from the outside, there appears to be no "love the sinner" at all. That's the way I see things, anyway.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "Basically, from the oustide looking in, it all comes off as "hate" because it's hard to separate the "sinner" and the "sin", especially if it's something biological. So, for those that wonder why there is such a negative backlash against a particular religion, please understand that from the outside, there appears to be no "love the sinner" at all. That's the way I see things, anyway." I think that's very insightful. Hopefully Josh is reading.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I think that's very insightful. Hopefully Josh is reading.<< But it doesn't matter. That advice is for *other* religions. Because they're the wrong ones. They're the ones that think they're right but aren't. The religion that I'm in? That's the right one. And that's how people in exclusive faiths think. Theirs is conveniently the right one. So it justifies them doing all the harm they do.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***However, "kill Mormons on the spot" and "don't allow gay marriage" are two very, very different things.*** How different is "kill mormons on the spot" and "kill gays on the spot" to you? Because discrimination certainly begins there, but that's hardly where it ends. And once again, you fail to realize that what happened to YOUR people is exactly what you are doing to others now.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***He did strike a nerve.*** Apparently. Perhaps you might consider how that feels, and remember that it was your guys who "struck a nerve" first, AND that's why everyone is so angry now. Just try it on for size. ***I blew up and then quickly apologized for it*** No. You apologized to only one person in particular. ***which was then rejected*** The person you appologized to hasn't replied. So how do you figure they "rejected" you. Must be nice, feeling like such a martyr. It's all garbage to me though, you can't even keep your story straight on a simple thread like this one. As usual, you are claiming some kind of "high road", when your words and actions tell nothing of the sort. Don't they teach you not to lie in Mormon "Sunday School"?
