Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <I am forced to enter into contracts on a daily basis. How would you remedy that?> Again, through the legislative process, not the judicial one.
Originally Posted By ecdc The conservative interpretations of the law, amendments, and political philosophy we've seen on display sound nice and impressive in a freshman dorm room, but they have no practical application in the real world. As 2oony already pointed out, there's all sorts of marriages I don't like. Can I break my contract with them? In practice, there is no "contract with society." There's no agreement to procreate, no agreement to get along, no agreement to raise children a certain way, no agreement to contribute to society in any way, shape, or form. In short, the smoke and mirrors we often see from conservatives on this topic is nothing more than a way to obscure bigotry brought on by archaic religious beliefs.
Originally Posted By piperlynne Explain how marriage is a contract with society please. Seriously. How?
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <I suspect the bottomline is that someone that Douglas trusts without question told him that homosexuality is a no-no. And therefore will support NOTHING that makes life easier for them.> Your suspicion is incorrect.
Originally Posted By piperlynne Specifically what "Legislative Process" termed marriage a "contract with society" and where is it documented?
Originally Posted By BlueDevilSF Prove it. All you've done is demonstrate your willingness to support whatever you can to keep the gay people of this country below you. I think I've said this before: It must have KILLED you to live so close to Gay Ground Zero.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Again, through the legislative process, not the judicial one.<< Unless you are suggesting that we put each and every marriage up to a vote, I will still be forced into a "marriage contract" with all sorts of marriages I am personally not okay with. This is using your own definition of how marriage is a contract with society, too.
Originally Posted By dshyates "Your suspicion is incorrect." I thought you would say that. But you also claim that birth rates would decline if gays could marry. So forgive me if I don't take you seriously.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <Can I break my contract with them?> Of course. You are free to leave society, or find one more to your liking, or change this one through the legislative process. <In practice, there is no "contract with society."> Of course there is. It's called thousands of years of traditions.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <Specifically what "Legislative Process" termed marriage a "contract with society" and where is it documented?> See post 108.
Originally Posted By piperlynne (a little OT but kinda relevant to the arguments) Am I to understand that Doug is of the belief that one of the jobs of the Supreme Court is NOT to rule upon the constitutionality of laws that are passed by our legislative branch or laws that are executed by our executive branch? Just curious. Wanted some clarification.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Of course there is. It's called thousands of years of traditions.<< No, there isn't. I learned bout Lockean philosophy in high school too, Doug. But your application here is naive and incorrect. And you still haven't responded to my assertion that you are arguing that no one is entitled to inherent rights, but they must fight for them. Is that what you're arguing - African Americans were not entitled to freedom or any other rights until after the Civil War and the three resulting amendments?
Originally Posted By piperlynne <<<Specifically what "Legislative Process" termed marriage a "contract with society" and where is it documented?> See post 108.>> EXACTLY MY POINT. WOW! So, gay people are not part of society and don't deserve the same protections and rights? What exactly are you saying. If that is what constitutes a "contract with society", then not allowing a group of the population to marry that are citizens of the united states and protected under its laws, is infringing on their right to have those rights.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <All you've done is demonstrate your willingness to support whatever you can to keep the gay people of this country below you.> I don't believe that gay people are below me. <It must have KILLED you to live so close to Gay Ground Zero.> If you said it before, you were as wrong then as you are now.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <I will still be forced into a "marriage contract" with all sorts of marriages I am personally not okay with.> It's not my fault that you can't come up with workable definitions.
Originally Posted By dshyates "It's called thousands of years of traditions." <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...fX7ut8gw</a>
Originally Posted By piperlynne "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." Does this Amendment include ALL citizens or only heterosexual citizens of the United States?
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh < But your application here is naive and incorrect.> I guess this is the point of the debate where you start making unsupported assertions, I deny them, and you complain that I'm not supporting my denials. < Is that what you're arguing - African Americans were not entitled to freedom or any other rights until after the Civil War and the three resulting amendments?> Certainly not.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>It's not my fault that you can't come up with workable definitions.<< LOL! I am just attempting to follow your logic, and your logic collapses rather quickly. That's why you immediately bring out "thousands of years of traditions" when painted into a corner by your own logic.
