Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< I have been watching this story for over a month and it's just another example of the " religion of peace " in all it's glory once it takes root in a culture. ... it's obvious the true evil is Islam >>> Beau, there's something I just don't understand about some of your positions. Allow me to sum up some of your positions: A. Islam is evil. Not just a conservative fundamentalist faction within it, but the entire religion and its holy book are inherently evil. B. The solution to the problems in the Middle East is democracy, and the US should do everything possible including taking military action to see to it that this happens. C. A secular governance of society is bad, and only if we return to our religious roots will we have a great nation. Each of the above is taken from stuff you've said dozens if not hundreds of times, so I don't think I'm misunderstanding or misrepresenting your opinions on any of the above issues. Please correct me if I'm wrong. So, the question I have for you is obvious: how do you reconcile them? If each country in the region became freely democratic (whether at the barrel of a US rifle or otherwise), what do you think would happen? Let me review some statistics, showing some of the countries in the region and percentage of population that's Muslim: Iraq 97% Iran 98% Syria 90% Jordan 92% Saudi Arabia 100% Pakistan* 97% Afghanistan 99% So Beau, with your three strong beliefs above, I just don't see what you expect the results to be in the Middle East. It's clear that free elections in any of the above countries would result in a heavy influence of Islam, especially since one of the aspects of that religion is that there really isn't a distinction between church and state. And even if this was not the case, you have made it abundantly clear that you believe that the government of a democracy should be rooted in the religious beliefs of its people, and that secularism would mean its downfall. You have been so strident, and so unambiguous about each of the three things I list above, that I just don't see what you could possibly envision as an end result for the Middle East. I would be very interested to hear what you had to say about this. * Footnote: Pakistan is a declared nuclear power, and its chief nuclear scientist has been caught selling nuclear secrets to several other nations, including Iran and North Korea.
Originally Posted By cape cod joe Post 33---I understand Tom- To put it in perspective though------600,000 people here in the states die from obesity every year so I am much more concerned about that. Smoking ditto. So one human life is too many but that is why I'm fighting for health issues before everything else.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Superdry, great question and post. ( # 41 ) You have hit on something that does bother me a bit. If Islam is rooted in evil and every nation that sponsors it becomes a hell hole of repression.... how can Iraq work? Well, the ony way Iraq will work is if the imans and clerics don't push sharia law and the people get to have a free democracy where all religions are welcome and people can live independent lives. Oherwise it's going to be trouble and I admit it. The good news is that the people of Iraq are starting to thrive under their new freedom and the Kurds in Northern Iraq have set up a great community with new businesses popping up everywhere. People don't want to be old what to do, they want to be free. Iraq has that chance and if it works it will set a great example for other Islamic nations to follow. Terrorism is coming from the leaders of Islam, the powerful clerics and imans who prech jihad and a hatred for the Jews. Coulter was right.. we kill them and make the people Christian and all the problems are solved. Ha! As far as our country goes, I think you mis-stated my feelings about religion here. I only want this country to stay true to it's traditions and culture which is Christianity. Banning god like the ACLU wants to do in so many cases hurts America because we are strong as a result of our faith. Look at godless countries and you will see a total collapse of the family unit and the culture. There is a reason Christian countries are blessed and proper, while Islamic countries are depressed places that push death and destrution. Our religion works and their religion of Islam doesn't. Want proof?? Just look at who has more money, who has more inventions, who gives more to the world, who has more freedom and rights, who has more theme parks and KFC's.
Originally Posted By Dirk_D_from_Oregon Beau, Why waste your breath arguing with the libs in here? They simply dont get it. Until a nuke gets detonated in a major Port, or a bio weapon smuggled in from Mexico kills tens of thousands in a subway or stadium this group of Americans (pacifist liberals- you know who you are) will continue to ignore tha barbarism of Islam. I might feel differently if there were ANY Muslim groups denouncing the beheadings, homicide bombings, stonings but there are none. Here is a quote by Newt Gingrich and he really nails it here: -"In Saudi Arabia, no Jews or Christians have any rights of any kind. But the Saudis get mad at a cartoon in Denmark. Think about the one-sided arrogance of that definition of reality. This is a world that we are in a collision with, and the challenge of a free society is to stand up and say that this violence should be condemned." The challenge is simply not being met by liberals. And the lid is going to blow off this pressure cooker eventually. WAKE UP PEOPLE!
Originally Posted By TomSawyer I don't think anyone is denying the reality that some Islamic societies are barbaric by our standards, Dirk. We just don't want to see our own society become barbaric as well.
Originally Posted By mele <<Why waste your breath arguing with the libs in here? They simply dont get it.>> Suuuure. We completely understand what he's saying. Just because we don't agree with him it doesn't mean that we don't get it.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< I only want this country to stay true to it's traditions and culture which is Christianity. Banning god like the ACLU wants to do in so many cases hurts America because we are strong as a result of our faith. >>> We've gone over this before with Christianity and the ACLU, but almost every case you have cited before involves the ACLU suing not to prevent a private citizen from excercising their religion, but to prevent a government official acting in their official capacity from doing something to impose their religious values on others. It seems that you get very upset when this is stopped. What do you think will happen in Iraq (97% Muslim) when elected officials invariably start acting in the same fashion? I believe that you've also made fun of accomodation in the US of minority religions, such as Islam. <<< Well, the ony way Iraq will work is if the imans and clerics don't push sharia law and the people get to have a free democracy where all religions are welcome and people can live independent lives. >>> But only 3% of Iraqis are non-Muslim. So no matter how freely they are allowed to exercize their religion (which was quite freely even under Saddam), it would seem difficult to imagine them having much influence in a democratic society. <<< Terrorism is coming from the leaders of Islam, the powerful clerics and imans who prech jihad and a hatred for the Jews. >>> You'll get no argument from me there. But above and beyond that, you've made it incredibly clear that it's not just extremists, but the entire religion that you find to be the problem. So you have not addressed how you envision Iraq working out. <<< In Saudi Arabia, no Jews or Christians have any rights of any kind. >>> Yet they are one of the United States' closest allies in the region, with especially close ties to the Bush family. Explain that one.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<We just don't want to see our own society become barbaric as well.>> Killing barbarians might seem bararic to a liberal, but the military is there to be barbaric when need be. The military is there to kill and reak things, as Rush likes to say, when need be. Be glad they do, otherwise their would be no gay parades and SF city leaders to bash the very military that gives them freedom. We could have leveled the entire middle east Tom and you know it. We could have saved many American soldiers by simply carpet bombing the Suni Triangle, but we are a civilized country who not only FREES people from dictators, but we build their country back up and give it ack to them. What other coutry in the world does this after we defeat an enemy in war? Yet the typical pinhead will claim we are a bunch of imperialists.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<It seems that you get very upset when this is stopped. What do you think will happen in Iraq (97% Muslim) when elected officials invariably start acting in the same fashion? I believe that you've also made fun of accomodation in the US of minority religions, such as Islam.>> We know that when a nation is Christian, it thrives. We know that whena nation is Islam and it pushes a Taliban style government it fails and the people suffer and people get killed. Iraq is not going to go that route, or so we are hoping. I find it hard to believe that people who had 30 years of Saddam, who finally get some freedom, are going to give it up for a sharia type Islamic goverment.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<We know that when a nation is Christian, it thrives.>> Is Mexico thriving? Are the countries in Central America thriving? Are the countries in South America thriving? Sorry Beau. I don't think being a Christian nation has a damned thing to do with it.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Your righ Roadrip, you need to also mix in capilalism with Chrisianity. Yep, capialiam and Christianity, the roots of our success...and the target of liberals who want to get rid of these things in so many cases.
Originally Posted By bboisvert <<The military is there to kill and reak things, as Rush likes to say, when need be.>> I hope you mean Rush Limbaugh, the three-hour hate-monger and not Rush the Juno winning Canadian trio. I don't believe that Dirk, Lerxt, and "The Professor" ever said anything like that.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan From Wikipedia: >>On the kidnapping of four liberal peacemakers in Iraq: "I mean, these people are liberals, they're warped. Well, I mean, that's why there's -- I'm telling you, folks, there's a part of me that likes this. Probably, even with this, though, you know, they're not going to see the light of day."<< He likes that four liberals were kidnapped. That's pretty hateful. I don't like Limbaugh but I wouldn't cheer if he were kidnapped, or if he was shown to be a hypocrite by calling for imprisoning drug users and turned out to be abusing drugs himself.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Rush also said that he hopes the peacemakers were found and saved. His point was that thes peacemakers finally got to see for real what terrorists were like and being peaceful is not the way to beat them. You have to listen tot he entire segment in context. Rush is the most positive guy on the radio and his books are teh same way.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>You have to listen tot he entire segment in context.<< He said, "there's a part of me that likes this." That's a rather sick statement, but it reveals a lot about the guy. Go ahead and be an apologist for him, though.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<He said, "there's a part of me that likes this." That's a rather sick statement, but it reveals a lot about the guy. Go ahead and be an apologist for him, though.>> When some very ignorant peace activist who by their very nature is clueless to the threat we are fighting, gets caught by the threat.... I like it on a certain level because in a way, they get to see that they are wrong to think bringing " peace " to a evil dictator is a plan that no chance to succeed. It's a way for a liberal to actually see that their stupid protests about peace are worthless when it comes to actually facing the bad guys on this planet. Do we want them to get killed or hurt?? No way.... We just want them to open their eyes to reality. This is what Rush was talking about. I heard the show that day.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer >>When some very ignorant peace activist who by their very nature is clueless to the threat we are fighting<< These Christian activists (if they are the ones I'm thinking of) understand the threat we are fighting far more than you do, Beau. Easter isn't about eggs and chocolate.
