Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan If the AP program didn't generate extra revenue, Disney would simply stop offering it.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>If the AP program didn't generate extra revenue, Disney would simply stop offering it.<< Accurately and succinctly put. If you ever worked for a giant corporation, you know they have more reports and analyses than you can possibly dream. Disney will know exactly how much the average APer costs them vs. how much revenue the average APer brings in. Which isn't to say that all their analysis and reports and data are perfectly synthesized and that they make all the right calls. Leaders in most businesses get notoriously insulated and can make very poor choices. But the bottom line is, Disney is clearly confident that their AP program brings in plenty of revenue.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "If the AP program didn't generate extra revenue, Disney would simply stop offering it." Google is widely known in the Bay Area for amazing employee culture, including unlimited free food in its cafes, a benefit that several big tech companies have emulated only to find that it's extremely expensive, leads to waste, and diminishes the perceived value of the service (sound familiar?). The founder of the Google free food program has since gone on record saying that the 100% sudsidy on employee was a mistake.It's much harder to take away a discounted service or benefit offering than to implement one. I think the same applies here. The AP program may or may not be a big revenue generator, but whatever it is Disney can never eliminate the program because too many of their customers are tied to it and there'd be incredible backlash if it went away.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Disney can never eliminate the program because too many of their customers are tied to it<< Customers can be retrained. If Disney determined that the program was a money loser, there are many ways the AP program could be modified. Like the Wicked Witch of the West once said, these things must be done ca-aa-aarefully, but they can be done. One way is through a pricing structure that "encourages" people to consider buying say a 20-day annual pass vs. a 365 day pass. Make the 365 day pass obscenely expensive, the 20 day pass much more attractive, and for the bulk of folks, they'd take a look and say "Y'know, we never actually go more than 15 days a year when you think about it." If the "backlash" is from people who are eating 10 times the amount at the buffet than the average guest, Disney would be better off. But I think the heaviest, go-almost-daily Disneyland APer is a fairly rare thing on balance. And that's why Disneyland, in spite of constant online rumors that WDC is wanting to ratchet down the AP program, is instead active;y promoting it and offering monthly payment plans to make it easier. Clearly, the AP program is a money generator overall and well worth it for Disney. They simply aren't going to offer something that doesn't pay off. The "dynamic pricing" isn't really a means of crowd control so much as a way to increase profits fairly easily. Supply and demand: when demand is high, you can raise the price.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt >>Disney can never eliminate the program because too many of their customers are tied to it<< "Customers can be retrained. If Disney determined that the program was a money loser, there are many ways the AP program could be modified. Like the Wicked Witch of the West once said, these things must be done ca-aa-aarefully, but they can be done." For sure, but Disney may determine that long term it may makes sense to maintain a money losing program than alienate customers. I have no idea whether APs are profitable or not, but there are plenty of examples of corporate organizations subsidizing services to keep customers happy.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I have no idea whether APs are profitable or not, but there are plenty of examples of corporate organizations subsidizing services to keep customers happy.>> I'm sure it costs Disney a small fortune to run the Magical Express... a service free to those staying in WDW Resorts. They obviously feel it generates enough revenue by increasing hotel bookings and keeping people on Disney property to make it worthwhile.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Not to mention all those free shuttles, ferries and monorails.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>If the AP program didn't generate extra revenue, Disney would simply stop offering it.<< I don't doubt that Disney makes money off of APers, I just think they make a whole lot more money off of the less frequent visitors. Especially when you consider how many special events they put on just for the AP crowd, it seems like Disney gives them a lot more benefit for their dollar. It seems like for every dollar they make on an out-of-towner, they may only may 15 or 20 cents on an APer; true, it's better than nothing, but you have to wonder if they could play with the ratios of APs/out-of-town guests to boost profits more >>They obviously feel it generates enough revenue by increasing hotel bookings and keeping people on Disney property to make it worthwhile.<< I don't know how many people are swayed to use a Disney hotel because of MDE (especially since it's not advertised especially well prior to booking your room), but it does a great job of trapping folks on property. It leads to a lot more meals and snacks purchased at the hotels (and elsewhere on property), and eliminates a lot of days where guests may have ventured to Universal or Sea World. I think it's an excellent example of an addition that appears to be a loss-leader, but makes up for it in many other ways
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt I'm staying at the Paradise Pier and I'm too ashamed to post the rate we're paying for a property that is basically a glorified Courtyard by Marriott. We ended up there because all of the "affordable" rooms at TGC and DLH were booked and we wanted to be on Disney resort property. Disney has to be making a fortune on their hotels in Anaheim and Orlando.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I'm too ashamed to post the rate we're paying for a property that is basically a glorified Courtyard by Marriott.<< I know exactly how you feel. I think that's why we've usually ended up at the GC in the past. It kinda feels like, "Well if I'm already gonna pay this much, might as well spring for the nicest one...."
Originally Posted By RoadTrip The Value and Moderate resorts at WDW aren't that over-priced when you consider the value of free parking at the parks and the Magical Express and Disney transportation for those without a car. The availability of Extra Magic Hours and ability to book FP+ an extra thirty days in advance is also a considerable benefit. But in both Anaheim and Orlando, the Deluxe hotels are ridiculously overpriced.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I've stayed at the Disney Hotels when visiting DL (DLH twice and PPH once), but only because I could pay for them using DVC points. I would LOVE to stay at the GCH, but unless it is your home DVC resort it is impossible to book. The other hotels aren't as good a point value, but at least it is possible to get a room.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>But in both Anaheim and Orlando, the Deluxe hotels are ridiculously overpriced.<< It's also kind of ridiculous to me that Disney thinks that all of their Anaheim hotels are in the Deluxe category. The GCH definitely fits, and DLH may be on the borderline, but PPH is squarely in the 'Moderate' category in terms of quality and amenities, while it's theming point more toward 'Value' (there's even an exact copy of the surfboard Goofy statue in the lobby next to the Pop Century pool). It's not a bad hotel by any stretch, it's just hard to justify what Disney charges for it That said, the PPH holds a special place in my heart. Due to its location, it's often the last chance to find flushing toilets before the runDisney races, and it seems like nobody knows it's there. The 2nd floor lobby bathroom may beat DVC for its title of "Best Kept Disney Secret"!
Originally Posted By CuriousConstance It holds a special place in my heart too, not so much for it's flushable toilets, but it was the hotel we stayed at on our first trip ever in 2006. I still remember my tiny daughter going down the pool slide.
Originally Posted By Kidz-n-k9s <<That said, the PPH holds a special place in my heart. Due to its location, it's often the last chance to find flushing toilets before the runDisney races, and it seems like nobody knows it's there.>> Thanks! Now I know how to bypass the port-potty line come September. I stayed on this property in the 1980s when it was called something like the Emerald of Anaheim. I was a pre-teen and remember to this day how uncomfortable the beds were. My sister and I joked that it was like having a piece of cardboard for a mattress and paper for a pillow. I'm hoping they have improved that now that it is Disney and charge over $300/night.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros ^^In September the corrals are over near the parking structure, so you can only use the PPH if you're walking up from the south. It works really well for the other 3 race weekends, where the corrals are right in front of the hotel Luckily they do a great job of having tons of port-a-potties (particularly in the reunion area, which is often deserted before the race) so they stay pretty clean
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I'm hoping they have improved that now that it is Disney and charge over $300/night.<< It's improved, but Hans's characterization of a "glorified Courtyard by Marriott" is spot on. It's a perfectly fine hotel, especially if you only use it to sleep and then spend most of your time at the parks. But there's no denying: Disney hotels charge 4- to 5-star prices for a solidly 3-star experience.
Originally Posted By CuriousConstance Although before the DLH remodeled, I would have described the rooms at PPH as nicer than the DLH rooms. But since the remodel, I doubt that's true.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt DLH rooms are very nice. I would rate them them as nice as the GCH.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros DLH also has rooms that are HUGE in comparison to more modern hotels. Somehow, Anaheim is blessed with very large hotel rooms, even in some of the more low-budget places. I guess that is one of the big benefits of having all those midcentury motels!
