Originally Posted By RoadTrip I disagree. Even though I'm not in a great position to do so since I visit DL so rarely. If Disney just wanted to maximize revenue they could have done so with a small across the board increase in prices instead of a fairly significant increase in peak period prices and a modest discount at other times. Lord know most guests would have willingly paid it. But that would have done nothing to reduce peak period visits. I know Disney could eliminate AP's or remove the payment plan to minimize crowding, but I think they realize that AP'ers are the core of their business. I think they were trying to change the visits of locals without AP's to try to reduce peak period crowding. There is not much Disney could do with out of state visitors... very often their visits are controlled by school and work vacation schedules. That isn't such a large issue for locals who have more freedom to visit whenever they want.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Lord know most guests would have willingly paid it. But that would have done nothing to reduce peak period visits.*** What if it's the opposite of what we're assuming? What if they know full well the place will be packed during peak periods no matter the price, so are trying to make the slow times look like a "special bargain" in order to fill the place a little more? Just sayin...could be a number of factors (that being the most obvious "what if") we're not even aware of.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros At least for WDW (and to a lesser degree DLR) it seems like a big push for this is to encourage people to buy multi-day tickets. For now, those are exempt from the surge pricing structure, which makes them seem like a relatively good deal. I fully expect them to be incorporated into this approach by next spring, so this will probably be a short-term benefit I'll be very curious to see if complaints and negative guest experiences increase as a result of this program. If I'm paying 20% more than somebody on a slow day, I think it's reasonable to expect more out of my day. Instead, I will most likely be met with long lines, insufferable crowds, and exhausted CMs. Perhaps guests will take the pricing structure as a "we told you so" and avoid the peak days, but I think it just gives them more ammunition for problems down the road >>Overcrowding is not a problem for Disney.<< Tell that to the operations teams in WDW. Their parks are so crowded yearround that they are rarely able to close attractions for refurbishments, lest the parks be left with too little operating capacity to deal with the crowds. This is why most major attractions there only get refurbished once a decade (if that), and it's done on accelerated schedules that skip over many of the problems Crowds are good for the parks and mean healthy business. Overcrowding is bad for the guests and bad for the operators. (of course this opens up the argument that the WDW parks don't have enough capacity in general, which I agree with, but also think it's relative to the crowd levels in the parks; they didn't have this problem in the 90's)
Originally Posted By doombuggy The reason they keep raising the price of a one day ticket is very simple they want you to buy multi days to be in the park that much longer you spend on food and merchandise.The whole excuse about crowds is complete BS They been raising the prices for years and the park are just as crowded as ever.
Originally Posted By berol > Overcrowding is bad for the guests and bad for the operators. They aren't going to do much about overcrowding until profit is affected.
Originally Posted By monorailblue The price increases won't appreciably change attendance patterns. They do want multi-day tickets sold, but part of that is that magical 2-week expiration--they'd like as many days as possible to expire unused. I think it is time to sell dated tickets and simply put a reasonable cap on each day's admissions. They could plan everything more precisely--from operating hours of lesser Attractions to custodial timing to food inventories--and Guests could be guaranteed at least a maximum level of crowding. I don't see this as possible with APs and other planning and media issues in existence, but it would be the most effective course. If they really want people to take advantage of value days, the differential needs to be bigger: how many locals would make a value-day trip if it were, oh, $62.00, just to pick a random number? If the difference is significant, people will bite. I don't see $95 as low enough to entice many.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>They aren't going to do much about overcrowding until profit is affected.<< I don't know for sure whether the profit was directly affected, but I suspect that the folks running WDW weren't happy about having to do their refurbishment of POTC last summer because it was the only window they could squeeze it into. That means that the overall park capacity was reduced below it's "normal" (so fewer guests can be let in) level during a time of year where it's not unusual for the park to fill up completely. Plus, I'm sure they sold a lot less pirate-related merchandise during those high-traffic summer months than usual >>I think it is time to sell dated tickets and simply put a reasonable cap on each day's admissions. << I agree that APs really screw this up, but WDW is already moving in that direction with the MyMagic+ system. You can buy your ticket for any day and just show up, but it's to your advantage to book your FPs and dining reservations in advance. Though this, WDW is able to more accurately estimate the number of people who will be in each park on each day, and adjust their plans accordingly. It's pretty common these days for park hours to be extended 2-3 weeks in advance (despite Disney wanting guests to plan everything 30, 60, and 180 days in advance) as crowd estimates get finalized
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I don't know for sure whether the profit was directly affected, but I suspect that the folks running WDW weren't happy about having to do their refurbishment of POTC last summer because it was the only window they could squeeze it into. That means that the overall park capacity was reduced below it's "normal" (so fewer guests can be let in) level during a time of year where it's not unusual for the park to fill up completely. Plus, I'm sure they sold a lot less pirate-related merchandise during those high-traffic summer months than usual>> I think those of us who attend WDW regularly understand how big a problem this is in a way that DL fans just don't. Despite the MK being much larger, DL has far more attractions so closures don't impact them so heavily Although given the way so many DL fans are freaking out about some fairly low capacity attractions on Rivers of America closing they are either starting to understand or soon will. Personally, I think the only reason they are freaking out is because they hate everything about Star Wars. Just my opinion, but I'm sticking to it.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros ^^Well, geographically it's a huge area that's shut down for a long period of time. The big boats are relatively high capacity (though they never run at full capacity due to lack of demand), and the canoes and rafts together provide a decent amount of relief on busy days In terms of ride capacity, MK is more like DCA (though MK has several high-capacity theater-based attractions to help out) but with nearly double the annual attendance. When one major attraction is closed, it is noticeable everywhere; if two or three are down at the same time, it's really bad in all but the lightest crowds
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<^^Well, geographically it's a huge area that's shut down for a long period of time. The big boats are relatively high capacity (though they never run at full capacity due to lack of demand), and the canoes and rafts together provide a decent amount of relief on busy days>> I don't buy that for a minute. The boats look large, but run few trips per hour resulting in fairly low hourly capacity. Mark Twain has a capacity of 400 people and the trip takes 18 minutes. Include load/unload time and you have two trips an hour, or 800 people. Columbia only runs during peak periods and has a capacity of 300 people and the trip takes 14 minutes. Again, including load/unload time you are looking at somewhere between 2-3 trips per hour, or 600-900 people. For sake of argument, let's say that Columbia matches Mark Twain's 800 people per hour. That means the two large boats COMBINED have a capacity of 1,600 people per hour. By comparison Pirates has an hourly capacity of 2,618, Small World has a capacity of 2,500 and even the "low capacity" Peter Pan has a capacity of 1,200. So I will agree that closing the Rivers of America attractions puts a large physical area of the park out of use, and probably results in a significant visual difference. But it is not impacting park ride capacity all that much. Probably the biggest impact will be that the thousands of people who currently sit on blankets for hours waiting for Fantasmic to start will now be looking for something to do. Plus they all hate Star Wars. ;-)
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I don't buy that for a minute. The boats look large, but run few trips per hour resulting in fairly low hourly capacity. << I'm guessing you haven't been to DL recently. There is no way to overstate how flipping crowded it is almost all of the time. Add into it the roping off of areas for various parades and the nightly crush to squeeze into a decent fireworks viewing, and it can be exhausting. While I am not anti Star Wars, it is too bad it couldn't have served as the theme for its own park. I'm sure the new Star Wars land will be great, but it makes for some strange things like Star Tours in TL, while the rest of Star Wars is elsewhere. And I cannot imagine how crowded the park will be once that opens. Unprecedented I would guess.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I'm guessing you haven't been to DL recently. There is no way to overstate how flipping crowded it is almost all of the time. Add into it the roping off of areas for various parades and the nightly crush to squeeze into a decent fireworks viewing, and it can be exhausting.>> They shut down people-eaters like Haunted Mansion and Small World every year for seasonal overlays and get along just fine. They will do fine taking out a few low volume rides for awhile. They have stated that all will be returning so total park capacity will be INCREASED by the hourly capacity of the SW attractions. Many things I've read suggest that one of the attractions will be a high capacity omnimover.
Originally Posted By 9oldmen >>I only prefer going in the summer because there's more time for everything. But now it looks like I'll have to pay anything from 105 to 120 just for D-land admission. So WTF am I supposed to do now?<< Don't go, or go and pay the higher prices like everyone else.
Originally Posted By 9oldmen >>I only prefer going in the summer because there's more time for everything. But now it looks like I'll have to pay anything from 105 to 120 just for D-land admission. So WTF am I supposed to do now?<< The one day price just before the change was $99. It's early March and Summer starts in June. You seriously can't set aside another $6 to $21 over the next THREE MONTHS?
Originally Posted By oc_dean ^^^^ Good point. But what about the overall picture ... of many years of exceptionally high increases ... add to that, your salary that hasn't made the same strides DLR prices are ... And you get frustrated people who eventually say - "I do have a breaking point, and I just reached it."
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>They shut down people-eaters like Haunted Mansion and Small World every year for seasonal overlays and get along just fine.<< But even those, they stagger to minimize the effects in the park. In January, iasw doesn't close until HM has reopened, which makes for an awkward Christmas overlay sitting around at the end of the month (usually until around the 20th). And that's during a relatively low period, when they could theoretically have many other things closed too Additionally, the big boats tend to run 20 minute cycles, so you can have 3 of each per hour, which creates a combined theoretical capacity around 2,000 guests per hour (though again, they never actually hit that number so it's sort of irrelevant) >>You seriously can't set aside another $6 to $21 over the next THREE MONTHS?<< I agree that it's pretty easy for one person to do this, but because the surge pricing seems to be built around school schedules, it will hit families much harder. A family of 4 will now have to pay around $80 more for a summer day, which seems like a huge jump. That's practically the price of bringing a 5th person to the park. And since I suspect the peak times are also when a higher percentage of one-day ticket holders are in the parks (because those pesky APs are blocked out), I'm sure they're going to make tons more money this year than in the past I'm really interested to see how much more money DL makes this year compared to WDW, where single-day tickets are much less common
Originally Posted By Kidz-n-k9s <<So I will agree that closing the Rivers of America attractions puts a large physical area of the park out of use, and probably results in a significant visual difference.>> I was very surprised a couple of weeks ago that the visual isn't bad. I assume the River would be drained and sight walls would be all around the railing. They have left water in place (I assume dammed up in the back) and with Mark Twain in the dock, it was just fine. There are sight walls in Critter Country starting about at the canoes, but that is a dead end and it didn't bother me at all. What did bother me was the closure of the trail from Fantasyland to Frontierland. You have to go through the hub, which is about impossible during parades and definitely impossible during fireworks.
Originally Posted By doombuggy The trail being closed is no surprise As they are needing to flatten that entire area back there. What did surprise me is that they always have a cm at the gate to the trail as if they think people are going to storm through it. And I completely agree It has now made it an absolute must To make up your mind what side of the park you're going to be on during parade and fireworks
Originally Posted By FerretAfros I would guess the CM is posted there mostly to keep an eye on things, give guests directions for an alternate route, and keep the area from feeling like a deserted wasteland. Disney often posts CMs in front of construction walls at attractions under refurbishment, so this doesn't seem all that strange by comparison
Originally Posted By doombuggy There is no CM at the other end of the trail. I don't know where you're thinking CM's are posted outside refurbishment walls They never do it during Christmas turnovers or any refurbs that are going on now other than Jungle Cruise.
