Originally Posted By Donny I think he is a hero,I think if he would have gone through the proper channels the people would have never known the over reach our government has done for our saftey.Our President is the biggest defendender of transparency and I agree with him. I would give Snowden amnesty and look for ways for our government to be more transparent when it comes to spying on our own people.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder So you're okay with the fact that what he's done has led to the deaths of people he doesn't know, that weren't responsible for the policies that put them where they were, that he's damaged the credibility of this country with its allies, has made practically every country even more suspicious of each other, and undeniably made you and your family that much more at risk? You're quite the patriot, risking everything like that.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>No it is not. He stole the detailed information and released it.<< Uh .. what was he supposed to do then? Go to the media and say "I used to work for the NSA and they're doing bad things there. I can't tell what those bad things are and I don't have any proof, but you gotta believe me, they're doing bad things"?
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>that he's damaged the credibility of this country with its allies<< What credibility? You mean they didn't already know that we're a bunch of thugs? It's not like the whole world didn't already hate our guts.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer What deaths have been caused by the information released? There's nothing in the information that he has released that points to undercover assets. The risk is that our enemies and allies know what the NSA is capable of recording now.. things like phone calls from Angela Merkel's office and what people every person in America has called on their cell phones and where they made the calls from. Who damaged the credibility of the country - Snowden or the NSA? That's like saying that prosecutors should never have gone after pederast priests because it would damage the credibility of the Catholic Church. And Snowden hasn't released all of the information he has. He's only released the information that points to unconstitutional actions by a rogue agency.
Originally Posted By andyll >>Go to the media and say "I used to work for the NSA and they're doing bad things there. I can't tell what those bad things are and I don't have any proof, but you gotta believe me, they're doing bad things"?<< There was a middle ground. He could have gone to the USA media and come to an agreement with them where he could have proved what he was saying but limited what was actually reveled publicly. Instead he went to the foreign media and seems to have turned over actual documents. He is now in Russia where everything he has is accessible by them whether he allows it or not. He offered to help Brazil investigate the USA spying on them... which of course means providing information to another country. He is no hero.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>There was a middle ground. He could have gone to the USA media and come to an agreement with them where he could have proved what he was saying but limited what was actually reveled publicly. Instead he went to the foreign media and seems to have turned over actual documents.<< I think there was good reason he went to the foreign media. There was a good chance our media would have buried the story.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Yes, our media consistently buries information that could be embarrassing to Obama. Look at the way they totally ignored the problems associated with the health-care website.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Much of what Jeffrey Toobin wrote in August still holds true now as it relates to Snowden. This simply wasn't his call to make, as in this statement: "He's only released the information that points to unconstitutional actions by a rogue agency." Not at anytime does Snowden get to appoint himself the world's watchdog. Not ever. <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2013/08/edward-snowdens-real-impact.html">http://www.newyorker.com/onlin...act.html</a> As for the deaths, no, you're not going to hear about them, ever. That's why they're deep cover ops. But according to my sources in the military, they may never know exactly how many lives were lost because of this. Not all deaths were Americans.
Originally Posted By fkurucz I firmly believe that our corporate owned media would have buried this. This isn't about politics. Consider how our media stood by and said nothing when the freedom killing patriot act was passed. Or how the militarization of our police has basically gone unreported. Our media is worthless. Snowden was right in approaching the foreign media.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Just look back a few days to the shameful puff piece that 60 Minutes did on the NSA.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Valerie Plame, who knows a thing or two about being covert and then being outed, opined that Snowden was neither hero nor traitor, and it's not particularly helpful to look at it in a binary way (kind of like what ecdc said). She said it was good that the overreach of the NSA has come to light, and that she believes his intentions were good - but that he wasn't selective enough with what was released and didn't think through some of the consequences.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox The NSA has been engaging in unconstitutional communications collection for years. And many members of Congress like Feinstein knew about it but kept it mum. When elected officials willingly participate in unconstitutional behavior being conducted in cooperation with for-profit private communications corporations, to whom exactly are you supposed to reveal this secret information so that the public can be made aware that their civil rights and liberties are being trampled? There was no other way for Snowden to get the word out. And the American people had the right to know that the NSA has been grossly overreaching with regard to the collection and storage of private conversations of American citizens and their allies. Snowden is no more a traitor than was Daniel Ellsberg. Whistleblowers such as these men are a vital part of the check-and-balance needed to keep democratically elected representatives from becoming powerdrunk despots.
Originally Posted By Donny I heard someone say what senators,congressmen and watchdog groups have been trying to show the public for years without success Snowden did in a month and he sacrificed his freedom to do it.
Originally Posted By Tikiduck "Snowden is no more a traitor than was Daniel Ellsberg. Whistleblowers such as these men are a vital part of the check-and-balance needed to keep democratically elected representatives from becoming powerdrunk despots." Think of Nixon, and his power trip persecution of "enemies" like John Lennon. Throw in the Watergate scandal. What would he be capable of with today's technology? Snowden put it all on the line for his principles. I am personally grateful for his sacrifice, and don't think the country has been compromised any more than it deserves to be compromised.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt The White House is officially blasting the NSA's data collection program in a new just released report: <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://gawker.com/white-house-review-slams-nsa-metadata-spying-program-1485950631">http://gawker.com/white-house-...85950631</a>
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Snowden put it all on the line for his principles. I am personally grateful for his sacrifice, and don't think the country has been compromised any more than it deserves to be compromised." I'll keep harping on this aspect of it- the people he got killed would like a word with those of you who think he's such a hero and martyr. They'd like to have a word, but well, he saw to it so they can't.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder On other thing- don't be surprised if it turns out Snowden was really a Russian spy all along.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "[Valerie Plame] said it was good that the overreach of the NSA has come to light, and that she believes his intentions were good - but that he wasn't selective enough with what was released and didn't think through some of the consequences." I'm with Valerie Plame. Hero/traitor is lazy thinking.
