Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer I thought her thoughts were pretty good....LOL. Give a Lion Amongst Men a try. Yackle makes that whole series worthwhile.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Oh, I know that, but I would just really like to see Disney produce that level of showmanship and creativity that Wicked holds. Great novels, great show, it really foots Disney's want for franchises. >> The books always seem so "LOOK at how clever I am" for my liking. Maguire isn't the first and he won't be the last to be a revisionist novelist. Although I enjoy Schwartz's music and lyrics (and to be honest I've always preferred his lyrical work rather than his music) I found the musical to be very clunky - especially the mechanical Eugene Lee set (but what do I know - it won the Tony). I just don't get why it is so popular (but then the atrocious The Addams Family is packing them in too).
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Not in my experience. I can't recall anyone "walking off" a job.>> I can recall folks being told to work on certain projects and opting to 'resign' or 'spend more time with my family' type of deals. <<Occasionally folks have given up on projects that they believed in passionately like the Morris/Delaney vision for PirateLand at HKDL or Baxter's "DCA is the entrance to Disneyland" concept.>> Obviously, Tom and Tim had very little choice on the HKDL project from what I gather. It was too good and too pricey for both Disney and the SAR's tastes, which is very unfortunate. Too bad it wasn't built at the start because that seems to largely be the only way big price tag projects get done these days. Oh, speaking of which, interesting that Bruce put 'out' an alleged rendering of Shanghai at the WDFM's DL 55th Celeb Weekend. I wonder what percentage of it is even remotely accurate. It kinda harkens back to when HKDL's rendering came out and showed very little other than a park on a bay with a castle, a Space Mtn and fireworks bursting in air! Oh ... as to Baxter's 'DCA as DL's Entrance' idea, I would think even an unabashed Tony critic as yourself would at least 'get' where that came from. No one wanted Tony's input on the original park because guys like Pressler, Galen, Braverman, Goodman and the like 'knew better' ... they didn't want DLP quality ... they didn't want TDS quality ... they didn't even want DAK quality. ... They wanted a park built on the cheap and they got it. Tony's 'concept' was likely an in your face 'this isn't how we build a theme park at Disney' blow more than anything. I didn't agree with his idea at all, but I don't blame him for having a lot of bile over how DCA was conceived and built. It's amazing that no 'numbers guys' ever talk about how much it has cost Disney, both in actual dollars and to the rep of 'the brand', by building DCA the way it was and then throwing money at it for a decade in all sorts of ways from small scale concerts to revamped c-Tix like Monsters to major additions like ToT and Aladdin. My hunch is if you added it all together, you could have built two TDS quality parks when all is said and done. <<You do yourself no favors in any walk of life by simply giving up when you don't get your way or the going gets tough. You have to believe in yourself to deliver the best possible experience.>> Agreed. But you also have to have the power and support to get anywhere as well. <<All this talk of creative versus non-creative is baloney too. It is never black or white. I'm a "non-creative" but I'm always accused of siding with the creatives. I need to understand what they want to do and find a way to make it happen or moderate the compromises.>> Nothing is black or white, but under the way Disney has been running its P&R since the influx of money guys and consultants in the mid-90s, creativity has been placed at a competitive disadvantage when it comes to battling over funds. Disney plays it more conservatively than Sarah Palin on the Tea Party circuit. You can't not take risks in the entertainment business. You just can't. Disney can blame the economy all it wants, and it is bad, but at some point (talking FLA here) management needs to look long and hard at the fact they have a very stale product and are constantly cutting quality (something they call 'costs'). Even many WalMarters eventually realize this.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >> Because EPCOT needs more new countries. Animal Kingdom is just fine as it is for a while. Attendance at EPCOT is down, in particular at World Showcase, because it is becoming old and stale. << <<Plus the fact that Epcot is a high capacity Park, with restaurant row, and really needs to eat the people up. Without nighttime expansion DAK is good for the time being.>> I agree and disagree at the same time. DAK certainly doesn't feel as stale as parts of EPCOT ... but, frankly, every WDW park needs help. And lots of it. Oh wait, I see vinyl!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I'll never understand why people stay on Disney property when they aren't going to Disney. It's an inferior product when compared to most of the accommodations in Orlando, at a significantly higher price.>> Because some folks prefer 'the magic'. I love many of Disney's resorts. I could probably stay at the WL or DAK Lodge or the Poly for a week or two without ever setting foot in a theme park. That said, value just isn't what it once was ... unless you're getting one of those 60% off CM discounts (ones that would NEVER be offered in July ever before). But some folks are nuts. A friend of mine just spent time at DLR ... he stayed at a great Doubletree Hotel in Orange (10 minutes away) for $43 a night using Priceline.com ... another friend (who needs pixie dust to survive) spent over THREE times as much to stay in a room at the Paradise Pier Hotel WITH a CM discount. I don't get that 'tude.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<MPierce, I believe you're thinking of whylightbulb. He was indeed involved with the show installation on Forbidden Journey.>> Yep. And he has worked on major projects for both WDI and UNI Creative.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> DAK certainly doesn't feel as stale as parts of EPCOT ... but, frankly, every WDW park needs help. And lots of it. << I didn't mean to imply it doesn't need help. It most definetly does. I just think it's a futile effort to expand in DAK unless you make it both a day, and nightime Park.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> But some folks are nuts. A friend of mine just spent time at DLR ... he stayed at a great Doubletree Hotel in Orange (10 minutes away) for $43 a night using Priceline.com ... another friend (who needs pixie dust to survive) spent over THREE times as much to stay in a room at the Paradise Pier Hotel WITH a CM discount. I don't get that 'tude. << I'm a sucker for staying at the WL, and paying over $300 a night during value season, and I know it. It's just because it has become such an intricate part of the vacation I can't help myself. DAMN you evil demon Mouse!
Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1 "^^^I'll never understand why people stay on Disney property when they aren't going to Disney. It's an inferior product when compared to most of the accommodations in Orlando, at a significantly higher price." Because they've bought into this stupid "Stay with the Magic" BS.
Originally Posted By Lee hisownself leemac, I have a question for you that I'll stick here since you seem to look at this thread. (This board needs PMs....) Anyhow...The budget being thrown around for Little Mermaid is $100mil. I say that's way high, even for an infated WDI budget, unless they are including a lot of R&D and infrastructure costs. Your take?
Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1 "hence why Oz fanatic Tony Baxter...." He certainly is. He has an AMAZING prop from the film in his personal collection.
Originally Posted By leemac <<"hence why Oz fanatic Tony Baxter...." He certainly is.>> I was expecting the first comment on that to be something a little more....cliched? )
Originally Posted By leemac <<The budget being thrown around for Little Mermaid is $100mil. I say that's way high, even for an infated WDI budget, unless they are including a lot of R&D and infrastructure costs. Your take?>> If you pick up a project that is still "in development" then you share those costs - like DLR and WDW Co. did for TSMM. Same for Mermaid which is why the budget is beyond TSMM. Same reason why OLC won't sign on for projects like TSMM and Mermaid for TDR until they have "opened" at another resort. They don't have to share in the R&D costs.
Originally Posted By leemac ^^ To be clear - they won't have to share the development costs - which is why stuff like TSMM isn't greenlighted until it opens elsewhere. It is nothing to do with their perceived conservatism - it is down to cost.
Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1 "I was expecting the first comment on that to be something a little more....cliched? )" I thought it was a little too uuummmm, let's say obvious. ; )
Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1 Oh and Tony is SUCH an Oz fan he even once outlined to me his story(which he had scripted)for a(then)fourth Indiana Jones film involving the 1939(IIRC)World's Fair, the ruby slippers and our intrepid adventurer.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> ^^ To be clear - they won't have to share the development costs - which is why stuff like TSMM isn't greenlighted until it opens elsewhere. It is nothing to do with their perceived conservatism - it is down to cost. << What would be a fair estimate on picking up the cloned version?
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Although I enjoy Schwartz's music and lyrics (and to be honest I've always preferred his lyrical work rather than his music) I found the musical to be very clunky - especially the mechanical Eugene Lee set (but what do I know - it won the Tony). I just don't get why it is so popular (but then the atrocious The Addams Family is packing them in too).<<< While I agree that it's a little overwrought and cliche, I think it holds a lot of emotion, and honestly, IS clever. It's a decent show. It's fun. That's just IMHO, though.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I'm a sucker for staying at the WL, and paying over $300 a night during value season, and I know it. It's just because it has become such an intricate part of the vacation I can't help myself. DAMN you evil demon Mouse!>> That's just crazy. I have stayed well over 100 nights at the WL ... REALLY! ... and I have never paid more than $175 a night for a room there, including concierge. ~You Circle The Bed and Get an Estimate~
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>Here's another thought: no major theme park has ever done anything with The Wizard of Oz.<< There was a Land of Oz in Vegas, although that may not count as a "major theme park" in the minds of most. As others have pointed out, Oz at least appears in Storybook at DLP. I would argue that the extended Oz sequence in the Great Movie Ride is in the "major" realm. Problem, of course, is that it is, indeed, the MGM version that is what the public wants. And we all know the problems associated with securing rights to THAT. >>(I thought that when Disney built the Disney-MGM park, that we'd get some Wizard of Oz rides or something, but no. Lost opportunity there).<< Great Movie Ride. I'm only sayin'... >>I'm not really sure what Disney could have done with the property - the L. Frank Baum books have been in the public domain so anyone can develop property on them...<< The first book entered public domain while Walt was still alive, but he never did bother to try and secure anything there as the MGM version was so fixed in the minds of the public. Walt owned the rights to all 13 sequels, which entered public domain one by one, starting a few years before Walt died. The last one was in 1986-- hence a reason for Disney's Return to Oz in 1985. Disney, of course, retains the rights to that specific property, which is what we see at DLP's Storybook. >>...(hence why Oz fanatic Tony Baxter added it to DLP's Storybookland as the finale).<< Yup. (P.S. And since we're keeping score, there was also a "Return to Oz" unit in the Electrical Parade back when the film opened.)
