Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <It's safe to say we all admire McCain the person. His candidacy, however, leaves people lukewarm at best for many widely disparate reasons.> Sometimes lukewarm is better than a fever which accompanies delusion.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Sometimes lukewarm is better than a fever which accompanies delusion." I hope this doesn't imply I'm for Obama, because frankly, he scares me somewhat.
Originally Posted By jonvn I think this fainting thing is very creepy. This bandwagon piling on over nothing, the fact that his wife claims to have never been proud of this country and did not bother to correct herself, that Obama wants to chat with nuts around the world...This is what Kennedy tried to do, and Kruschev made mincemeat out of him in Vienna, which fostered the Berlin wall and Cuban Missle Crisis. If your enemy sees you as weak and willing to capitulate, then they will take advantage. This is a serious concern. I think it's a good idea to have a dialogue, but you don't go to these places hat in hand and beg.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Although some here might not believe it, ... I'm not a social conservative. >>> What are you?
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I think it's a good idea to have a dialogue, but you don't go to these places hat in hand and beg.<< Which Obama has never said he'd like to do. He's only ever said he'd be open to talking to people. Somehow, that's gotten turned into he'll roll over and play dead for the world's dictators. >>the fact that his wife claims to have never been proud of this country and did not bother to correct herself<< The fact that this is even an issue is why many of us have a hard time taking this country or its voters very seriously. It's caring about this kind of thing that got us into this mess in the first place - worrying about crap that doesn't matter, like whether or not someone has the flag on their lapel or whether or not "under god" is in the Pledge of Allegiance. It doesn't matter one bit; what matters is policy and actually doing things that make a difference. Any idiot can stand in front of a crowd and say "America's the greatest country in the world! I'm so proud of it!" Big deal. But not everyone can create the kind of bipartisan movement that's coalesced around Barack Obama. I have no doubt that Michelle Obama could've phrased what she meant a bit better. It reminds me of Joe Biden's speech to get in the race when he said Obama was fresh and "clean." Yes it was an awkward thing that came out of his mouth that he didn't really mean to sound like it did. But Biden knew more about Iraq than any of the other candidates, hands down, and he knew what it will take to establish peace there. But no one cared, because he accidentally said something stupid once. We're not a serious country. We're a country that cares about one-liners faux patriotism instead of real patriotism, which requires sacrifice beyond possibly sticking your finger with a lapel pin.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Somehow, that's gotten turned into he'll roll over and play dead for the world's dictators." That is what it amounts to. "The fact that this is even an issue " It would be an issue in any country. This is a very bad thing to have said. Now, of course anyone can misstate themselves, but then to not bother to correct what she said, that's the real problem. "like whether or not someone has the flag on their lapel or whether or not "under god" is in the Pledge of Allegiance" No, this is different. She probably meant to say "I've never been so proud in my life." That's all she had to say, but since she didn't, that's not right.
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> ... and, wow, McCain really is a very, VERY creepy guy. << So is his wife, to me anyway. She's got cold 'reptile' eyes and a chilly manner about her that's almost macabre. She really creeps me out.
Originally Posted By mele <a href="http://youdecide08.foxnews.com/2008/02/20/michelle-obama-clarifies-proud-remark/" target="_blank">http://youdecide08.foxnews.com /2008/02/20/michelle-obama-clarifies-proud-remark/</a>
Originally Posted By jonvn OH, reading down at the bottom, he says: "this is the first time that she’s been proud of the politics of America, because she’s pretty cynical about the political process, and with good reason, and she’s not alone" Uh huh...OK, well, that's not exactly a good retort, is it. That is not much better than what she said in the first place.
Originally Posted By mele No, I think most Americans feel the same way about politics in this country which is most likely why Obama is so popular right now.
Originally Posted By jonvn So we'll elect someone who isn't proud of our electoral process. That's great. And he's gonna change it all. Yep. He's going to sweep into power, and just turn the entire federal government on its ear. Give me a break. Like I said before, he'll end up doing nothing. Another Carter who said a lot of the same things.
Originally Posted By mele There are a lot more things to politics than the electoral process and some of it is definitely not something to be proud of. Why shouldn't she be happy and proud that young people are becoming more interested in the process in a way that hasn't happened in a long time?
Originally Posted By jonvn Because she hasn't been proud, and neither was he, yet he still managed to use the system he was not proud of to get himself elected to the US Senate. He's a phony, and people are sucking it up.
Originally Posted By Mr X **It would be an issue in any country. This is a very bad thing to have said.** Jon, I think it's fair to say that you've made MANY statements to indicate the fact that you are not particularly proud of America or Americans, particularly at this stage. Why would you take issue with her saying it?
Originally Posted By jonvn "Why would you take issue with her saying it?" Because I'm not trying to get the job to run the thing. Say you're in a job interview, at Microsoft, and you tell them "I have no respect for the way you operate your business." See how well that works for you. Disclaimer: I'm in a foul mood at the moment due to a bad cold.
Originally Posted By Mr X **Because I'm not trying to get the job to run the thing.** Neither is she.
Originally Posted By jonvn She is running for the job of First Lady by trying to get her husband elected. She's running as much as he is. On top of that, he's the one that said there is good reason to be cynical about the voting process, and she's not alone. Again, think about another job in industry. Would you hire someone who is cynical about the company being hired into, or the job they are applying for? No. Not that it matters. As I said, I suspect another Carter is here. Same vague blather about change. He was going to do this, do that, do the other. He attacked Washington a lot. He ended up a complete disaster.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Somehow, that's gotten turned into he'll roll over and play dead for the world's dictators.<< >That is what it amounts to.< No, it doesn't. Not by a long shot. Talking doesn't equal concessions, compromise, or anything else.