Originally Posted By Kimber "Yes, well, Bush is a complete numbskull. He's nothing to point at as an example. He has done an absolutey horrid job, which is why Obama can only be better, because god help the planet if he is worse. I really don't think it possible." Oh, but Obama can, and I fear will be, much worse - frighteningly worse - he's nearly as naive as was Carter when he took office - read through his foreign policy decisions - his web site is an elightening place as any to start, as is the reversal he made in the transcript of the Austin debate - and you'll get a glimpse of his complete lack of global perspective. "No preconditions" is his stated standard for diplomacy. He "believes" what he says has power, and he "believes" that others will as well. Kim
Originally Posted By jonvn "he's nearly as naive as was Carter when he took office" Yeah, I realize. Kennedy was that way, too. Same age, even. I hope he's not as bad as Bush. I think Obama is going to have a lot of hard lessons to learn really fast.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I think Obama is going to have a lot of hard lessons to learn really fast.<< Yes, like every president before him and after him, too.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Well, I'm not sure why you think they are all these delusional people. Okay, their big word is "hope." Nothing terrible about hope. Hope is a bit of a passive emotion, I "hope" it changes into resolve at some point. But for a campaign, a "hopeful" message is fine and isn't some bizarre, out-there idea, except maybe after 8 years of this fear-based administration. Honestly, whoever wins is going to have a lot to learn. i don't think anyone, ANYone, is "ready" for the job and all it entails. But the way it is set up, the role is very adaptable to the person. We haven't had an "inspirational" type of president in quite awhile. He won't inspire everyone, but I don't think there's anything all that bizarre or scary with the man.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << Okay, their big word is "hope." Nothing terrible about hope. >> Nothing terrible about it if applied correctly. I am frequently reminded of the "Stockdale Paradox": "The Stockdale Paradox is named after Admiral Jim Stockdale who was the highest ranking US military officer imprisoned in Vietnam. He was held in the “Hanoi Hilton†and repeatedly tortured over 8 years...to understand how he survived 8 years as a POW, ...[h]ere’s how Stockdale put it. “I never lost faith in the end of the story. I never doubted not only that I would get out, but also that I would prevail in the end and turn the experience into the defining event of my life, which, in retrospect, I would not trade.†...“Who didn’t make it outâ€? “The optimists. They were the ones who said ‘we’re going to be out by Christmas’. And, Christmas would come and Christmas would go. Then they’d say, ‘We’re going to be out by Easter.’ And Easter would come, and Easter would go. And then Thanksgiving, and then it would be Christmas again. Then they died of a broken heart.†“You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end – which you can never afford to lose – with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.â€" While hope is valuable, I'm not convinced that the most fervent Obama supporters are any better than the optimists that Admiral Stockdale describes -- always hoping for Christmas, Easter, whatever and then get let down when their hopes are dashed. The next 4-5 years is going to be incredibly tough -- maybe tougher than most Americans remember in their lifetime. Barack Obama might be an incredibly capable leader, but it will be very difficult for him to fulfill the hopes he advertises right now. I feel bad for the people who think all their problems will be solved with 4 years of this man. They will be disappointed.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I feel bad for the people who think all their problems will be solved with 4 years of this man.<< I don't think very many people believe that, my goodness. There is this new idea I'm seeing here that any Obama supporter is now this naive little doe without a clue about the big, mean old world. I really think some people just get upset that people can actually be voting FOR someone. There's a difference between having an optimistic, glass-half-full viewpoint as opposed to a cynical, nothing-matters-anywhere doom and gloom. >>While hope is valuable, I'm not convinced that the most fervent Obama supporters are any better than the optimists that Admiral Stockdale describes -- always hoping for Christmas, Easter, whatever and then get let down when their hopes are dashed.<< Well, nothing I can say will convince you. But I do know that people I've met who cross over from healthy skepticism into the realm of pessimistic cynics aren't usually very healthy, physically. It takes a heavy toll on a person and is no way to go through life. And worse still, a lot of pessimism eventually turns into self-fullfilling prophecy. What Stockdale calls faith can also be called hope.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Well, I'm not sure why you think they are all these delusional people. " I don't know if they all are, but there seems to be a large number of them that are. "He won't inspire everyone, but I don't think there's anything all that bizarre or scary with the man." There are with these supporters of his, I'd say.
Originally Posted By jonvn "There is this new idea I'm seeing here that any Obama supporter " Not ANY.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << I don't think very many people believe that, my goodness. There is this new idea I'm seeing here that any Obama supporter is now this naive little doe without a clue about the big, mean old world. >> Obama, and the Democrats in general, are riding a wave right now based on people's immediate wants. The economy is suffering, and voters want someone to put money back in their pocket. They want the war in Iraq to end. They want health care to cost less. An endless litany of wants. Obama give hope that he can fix these things, but doesn't describe the roadmap or timeline that they can actually be fixed. People buy into this stuff because they want it, but I don't think they'll be all that patient 5 years from now if their pockets are still empty, we still have troops getting killed in Baghdad, or they still can't get insured for health care. Obama can make great progress on any one of these fronts, but in the end, people want an immediate return and that's why they buy into this whole idea of "hope." What voters want is an instant fix lottery ticket, not real solutions to problems.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan but I don't think they'll be all that patient 5 years from now if their pockets are still empty, we still have troops getting killed in Baghdad, or they still can't get insured for health care<< Okay, but what's new about that? That's why we have elections every 4 years. If he delivers the goods he wins reelection. If not, he's a one-termer.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Barak Obama is a spoiled white kid in a bi-racial body. He’s NEVER been a black man in America. If you’ve a mind to vote for this fraud read his mind-numbingly boring book The Mendacity of Hype first and you’ll understand what drives him – page after page of pseudo-intellectual self congratulation. He's exactly as one of his aides described him “175 pounds of ambitionâ€.>> Ah yes... the "not black enough" argument. We knew the bigots would come crawling out of the woodwork sooner or later. Any what better way to disguise your bigotry than to claim that Obama is "not black enough"?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Thanks. I think I drank half a bottle of nyquil last night. I am just chugging it at this point. >> That explains a lot.
Originally Posted By mele Also, since when is ambition supposed to be a bad thing? Do people just fall into success? Are the people who do the people we want running the country? That's just weird.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << Do people just fall into success? Are the people who do the people we want running the country? >> Should have asked that 8 years ago with GWB. If not for Daddy's money, he would have been a complete nobody. I think falling into success certainly describes his situation in life.
