Originally Posted By BPSJP >>But I will say that Presidents get too much blame or credit for extraordinary circumstances.<< Yes, so true and some presidents do take to much credit, but in a way I can not blame them when an reelection bid is coming up. It takes a really big man to not take the credit. As far as not watching the speech, yea I did and I think Obama used the word over 10 times in his speech. He needs to use the word "we" a bit more, but that's who he is, love him or hate him.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Presidents often get too much blame or credit, but this is that situation where much credit really is due. You had some on the inner circle arguing for Seals, others for drones, others for trying to find out more definitively if bin Laden was in there before acting. And it was ultimately, after hearing all the advise, a one-man decision. It was a gutsy call, the right call, and he deserves credit.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***It was a gutsy call, the right call, and he deserves credit*** Indeed. He took a big risk that could've ended very badly for him personally (not to mention the soldiers!). The "easy call", I would think, would've been a bombing raid. But as has been pointed out, that would've lead to too many questions. Heck, even with the special ops teams assuring the public that his body was in their hands, people are STILL asking questions!
Originally Posted By BPSJP >> The "easy call", I would think, would've been a bombing raid. But as has been pointed out, that would've lead to too many questions.<< Well as we know there are no questions now right? I don't think he had any choice but the call he made, nothing gutsy about it at all. If we blew him up they would be going nuts now saying how we killed all those woman and children. So to me it was a way he would come out looking best, don't blame him he is running for re-election.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Well as we know there are no questions now right?*** Only from the wingnuts and noise machine. There's no question in MY mind anyway, and I think a lot of people feel the same way. If it were a bomb, they'd have to say they +think+ he's dead and that would make me wonder.
Originally Posted By Labuda "The "easy call", I would think, would've been a bombing raid. But as has been pointed out, that would've lead to too many questions." Yeah, to my uber pacifistic self, it's MUCH better to know this was a "capture or kill" order since I can focus on the word capture and try to push back those feelings about it being ABSOLUTELY wrong to end another person's life. Thank God I never entered the military; I could well have ended up getting a dishonorable discharge due to my extreme pacifism.
Originally Posted By Donny I have to say as the information leaks out about the raid I think it was a Kill on sight mission.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I have to say as the information leaks out about the raid I think it was a Kill on sight mission.<< Slate had a good article on this. Regardless of what the official mission was, the way it played out meant if you were an adult male you were a dead man walking. Don't know if they went in with that or if the early shooting put them in that mentality. Either way, I'm plenty good with it.
Originally Posted By gadzuux So is the Dalai Lama. >> Dalai Lama says bin Laden's killing understandable <a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/05/07/national/a081645D14.DTL" target="_blank">http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/...5D14.DTL</a> The Dalai Lama says the U.S. raid that killed Osama bin Laden was understandable, yet it also saddens him. The Tibetan Buddhist leader told reporters Saturday in Minneapolis that it's very easy to eliminate an individual, but the consequences of doing so can be complicated. The 1989 Nobel Peace Prize winner stressed his commitment to nonviolence several times. He says he was also saddened by the hangings of Saddam Hussein during the Iraq war and of Nazi war criminals after World War II. The Dalai Lama is in Minnesota to meet with members of the state's Tibetan community, the second largest in the United States at about 3,000, and to speak Sunday at the University of Minnesota. << Good enough for me.
Originally Posted By Labuda ^^ Maybe I should be Buddhist. Buddhist Labuda - that's just fun to say! hehe
Originally Posted By Dabob2 < I don't think he had any choice but the call he made, nothing gutsy about it at all. > You're forgetting that a bombing mission contains almost no risk for the Americans involved. This involved risk for those on the mission. Hell, one helicopter malfunctioned and if that had happened 10 minutes earlier, could have been a major problem (remember Carter's attempt to rescue the hostages?). Once inside, one or more Seals could have been killed, and if that had happened, how the right wing would have howled "Why not just flatten the place instead of risking our troops?" Then imagine if Al Qaeda had gotten wind of it somehow, or if a half dozen or more Seals had been killed and they'd manage to spirit Osama out of there? It could have been a disaster. I know you hate to give Obama any credit for anything, but this WAS a gutsy call, as DDman (a conservative) points out.
Originally Posted By BPSJP >>Only from the wingnuts and noise machine. There's no question in MY mind anyway, and I think a lot of people feel the same way.<< So CBS,ABC, NBC,CNN, and just about every news source in the world is confused on what happend in the raid, since the White House has changed the story about half dozen times now. So all the media are right wing nuts now?
Originally Posted By BPSJP >>BDSJP I'm not an Obama guy but this was best call to make<< Well then that ends that!
Originally Posted By BPSJP >I have to say as the information leaks out about the raid I think it was a Kill on sight mission.< No question, but why can't Obama just come out and say what every intelligent American alread knows?
Originally Posted By BPSJP >> Dalai Lama says bin Laden's killing understandable<< Was your quote from the Dalai Lama from the movie Caddyshack? I think that's where I remembers it.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "So CBS,ABC, NBC,CNN, and just about every news source in the world is confused on what happend in the raid, since the White House has changed the story about half dozen times now." If you had any knowledge, much less experience, in these type of things you would it is routine for the initial, raw information to be different from the final version. In the Administration's effort to be transparent, at first they put out for public consumption what they were told second and third hand by the CIA and military. In literally the heat of battle, not all the information is going to be exact. Once the actual participants are back and debriefed, an accurate version can be offered. To try and make an issue out of the idea that the story has "changed" and they're hiding something or incompetent is patently absurd.
Originally Posted By BPSJP >>To try and make an issue out of the idea that the story has "changed" and they're hiding something or incompetent is patently absurd.<< Can't have it both ways, either they are incompetent, or they are hiding something. I think they are just incometent, not hiding things. Though it is obvious that Obana is hiding the fact that it was a kill mission, and maybe that's why they keep changing the story and looking so incompetent. Obama needs to just fess up that the Seals where told to kill OB, and not bring him back alive. It's the lies that allways get presidents in trouble.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Can't have it both ways, either they are incompetent, or they are hiding something." No one asking for it both ways, as they're neither. "I think they are just incometent, not hiding things. Though it is obvious that Obana is hiding the fact that it was a kill mission, and maybe that's why they keep changing the story and looking so incompetent. Obama needs to just fess up that the Seals where told to kill OB, and not bring him back alive. It's the lies that allways get presidents in trouble." You don't have a freaking clue. You have no idea what you're talking about and are just guessing here. ""Fess up" you have a bias and move on.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Obama needs to just fess up that the Seals where told to kill OB, and not bring him back alive. It's the lies that allways get presidents in trouble.<< If you're going to be a bomb throwing sock puppet, at least be a bomb throwing sock puppet that can spell.
