Originally Posted By MPierce >> To be honest, I wonder if I am prejudiced against southerners. May be a possibility. << Devastated Dalmatians!
Originally Posted By danyoung >So it grows tiresome to hear absurd notions puked forth here that EPCOT was ever in danger of being closed or even seriously sold off...< And you wonder why I've so many times pledged my undying adulation to you, oh Spirit! Still waiting for Sport Goofy's sources . . .
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Oh my God!! Another Spirit minion. Is it legal for him to have more than one at once? ;-)
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << There appears to be a lot of revisionist history about EPCOT Center and it almost pulling the company down into a financial abyss. I think what most people don't realize (or mistate on fan discussion boards) is that EC wasn't financed. It was largely paid for the old-fashioned way .... cash. >> Why do you insist on making this stuff up? It's pretty easy to look up revenue/earnings/borrowing data on any corporation in the days of the internet. Disney's borrowings went from $18M in 1979 to $457M in 1983. If they paid for EPCOT in cash, what were they borrowing all that money for? Earnings declined from a high water mark of $3.72 in 1981 to $2.70 in 1983. Financially, the company was looking at a scenario where they would be cash-flow negative for the foreseeable future. They did a few things -- raised admission prices, got a 20 year advance payment on their Tokyo Disneyland royalties, and did some hotel deals at WDW. That stemmed the bleeding until the movie studio finally saved the company and Baby Boomers started to vacation with small children in a massive demographic wave that was tremendously beneficial to WDW.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <I agree with Spirit, with respectful nods to Dave's thoughts which make a lot of sense. I love WDW just the way it is. I love just gawking at the grandeur of it all. It truly is the Disney flagship resort in terms of scope if nothing else. < ditto here - after having grown up knowing only DL - the expanse of WDW is appealing - especially it the stay is going to be more than 2 days. I like the 'away from it' feel
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <On fastpass, personally I likes it, so I can't really go there. < OMG -- needed you here when I took a beating on FP -- I like it also. At the risk of expanding this thread a few hundred posts - the fairness of it came into question.
Originally Posted By danyoung >Oh my God!! Another Spirit minion. Is it legal for him to have more than one at once?< It's OK, Trippy - Spirit knows I'll bust his chops just as quickly as I'll praise the ground he walks on. I just like it when he makes sense. And SG, you quote some interesting numbers. Nothing in there proves anything beyond conjecture. What Spirit said agreed with my memory and knowledge of the time. But I'm anxious to read more, as well as Spirit's inevitable countering of your last post.
Originally Posted By u k fan And once again the value resorts and those that stay there get the blame. I stayed at Pop the very same week Dave was talking about. I'm sure the place was crawling with cheerleaders and football players. We had a very pleasant stay and experienced no bad behaviour at all. Perhaps all the bad ones went to AKL to upset the clientele there. I'll take several value trips over 1 deluxe every few years anyday. I can eat at any of the restaurants and visit any of the hotels I choose anyway. All I need is a bed. IMHO, Value is worth paying for, Deluxe isn't unless it's a special occassion!!!
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<Not me..... just one very general feeling and loose observation----- but it looks like WDW guests are quicker to open up conversation with strangers than Disneylanders; I find myself always talking with people whom I do not know at the 'World', which is a good thing! It happens very little at Dl Resort because guests proportionately are day visitors coming in from San Diego, Riverside and Tarzana.>> This is especially true Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Midweek you get more vacationers and it is quite noticeable.
Originally Posted By u k fan Looking over Dave's list of issues with his stay at AKL a while back actually makes me wonder if the way to go in future is to stay at value resorts. Dave mentions that DOM's (a term I hate by the way as it's impossible to qualify - who says what's mediocre?) tend to stay at the values and it makes me wonder could the service there be better than at the deluxes? Sure expectations are probably lower, but Dave mentions issues with room allocation. I faxed Pop ahead of arrival and requested a building/room and got exactly what I wanted despite the official rules stating this wouldn't be done. The CM's at reception and in the store couldn't have been nicer despite the crowds, often going out of their way to be helpful. To the best of my knowledge the room was clean with no trash where it shouldn't be (although to be fair I didn't go looking) and there were no maintenance issues. We only used the buses once or twice as we had a car so I can't compare that. So maybe I'm a DOM, maybe I've got lower standards, maybe I got lucky, but maybe, just maybe, the value resorts are actually better dollar for dollar than the deluxes. I would honestly say if my experiences were different. If the service had been crappy or the resort lacking I would say so. I have no reason to defend the value resorts, but everytime I've stayed in one I've had a great time!!!
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<I'll take several value trips over 1 deluxe every few years anyday. I can eat at any of the restaurants and visit any of the hotels I choose anyway. All I need is a bed.>> Same here, ukfan. We spend a negligible amount of time in the room or at the resort in general. I prefer the mods over the values, but I won't turn my nose up at the values if that;s my only option. I personally can't see paying maximum $$$ for a hotel that I barely spend any time in, but that's just me.
Originally Posted By u k fan ^^^ Agreed, whilst the hotel we stay in as a major factor in any vacation in a Disney vacation it's less important. Sure I want it to be clean and comfortable, hence the reason we tend to stay on property, but for the minimal amount of time we're in the room the rest is not necessary. I do understand with small children wanting to be somewhere well located to make returning to your room easier, but with WDW being so expansive without a car that seems negligible either way. At DL and DLP it's much more cut and dry - if you want faster access to your room pay more and stay closer, at WDW that doesn't hold true. Sure the monorail resorts are great, but if you're at DAK you're further from home then you would be at the All-Stars!!!
Originally Posted By Mr X I'll say one thing, UKFan, you were smart to get a car. I love the expensive resorts, they are imaginative and very cool, but if it came down to a choice between the dreaded (and yes, I really hate them) All-Stars and a car, or a deluxe resort and a week of buses, I'd go with the car.
Originally Posted By barboy ///Ahhh... you don't enjoy Americans. You enjoy Californians!! They certainly are a different breed. /// Oh you bet......and we come in three basic flavors: The nothern California tree hugging, rainbow flag waving, hippy holdover, pot smoking redwood hot tub soaker The central California valley farmer traditionalist The southern California tan, always on the move, botox injected, sunglass wearing art dealer
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< I've never had a run-in with this infamous "Disney Dining Plan", so I can't really comment. >>> What, you don't like $23 cheeseburgers?
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< There appears to be a lot of revisionist history about EPCOT Center and it almost pulling the company down into a financial abyss. I think what most people don't realize (or mistate on fan discussion boards) is that EC wasn't financed. It was largely paid for the old-fashioned way .... cash. >>> Even if what you say was true about EPCOT being paid for with cash, a project using up all of a company's cash can most definitely draw a company down into a financial abyss. Note that I don't have an opinion one way or the other as to whether this was the case with EPCOT - I'm just pointing out the false conclusion you've made.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***<<< I've never had a run-in with this infamous "Disney Dining Plan", so I can't really comment. >>> What, you don't like $23 cheeseburgers?*** Nope. $21 is my absolute limit, and with that I require at least 1.5 pounds of beef. ;p Wow, burgers are $23 there? I thought TOKYO was expensive!!
Originally Posted By CarolinaDisneyDad WOW, I'm southern, I'm not wealthy and I drive down every year to save money but I've never felt like I was out of place. I work overtime every year so that we can stay at POR but I would have no problem with a value resort. I have no problem with people of all incomes wanting to experience the magic and wanting to stay on property. WDW is for everyone. Yes, those with more money deserve more perks but I don't think Mr. Disney would have wanted to create an elitist park. I think he would have approved of the value resorts concept if it meant more people would be able to experience his dream. I would rather stay in a value and go every year than stay in the poly and go every 3 years.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 While Walt likely wouldn't want an elitist section-- Roy senior- who handled the money, likely would have - LOL !
Originally Posted By CarolinaDisneyDad That's why the vision is important and why the visonary's legacy must be guarded
