Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Wow, burgers are $23 there? >>> Yes, at the fancy table service restaurant in France at EPCOT. But only during the DDP promotional times where most resort guests gets it included at no extra cost. This way, people can see the tremendous value that they are getting with DDP and having all their meals included at no extra cost. During regular times, when most guests have to pay the menu price for meals, the $23 burger miraculously goes away.
Originally Posted By Mr X Why would the fancy table service restaurant in France at EPCOT serve burgers at all?
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Why would the fancy table service restaurant in France at EPCOT serve burgers at all? >>> Ordinarily, they wouldn't. They'd normally have a variety of dishes that are at least more French sounding, including a high-end beef dish at $26 or so. But then all of the people that get DDP for free might go there and see the filet as the most expensive thing on the menu and order it in much higher proportion than guests do during normal times (including guests that pay full price for DDP as an add-on during non-promotional times), thus throwing off the advance calculations of the cost of offering DDP for free to everyone. So, they had to change the menu, replacing the normal high-end filet with a hamburger, and by putting a $23 price on it, actually steering people to that option and away from other items that might actually have a higher internal cost. BTW, if you wonder why someone people complain so much about the DDP, see above
Originally Posted By u k fan Whilst in theory the DDP sounds great I want more flexibility. My beef with the plan is that it restricts my flexibility even though I'm not partaking!!!
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< What if you wanted a high-end beef dish though? ;p >>> I guess you're SOL at the French restaurant during free DDP periods. You could go to Le Cellier in Canada, which charges 2 DDP sit-down meal credits for each meal, which allows them to maintain a more normal menu. That is, assuming you can even get a reservation, which is much more difficult to get at most table service restaurants during free DDP periods since a higher percentage of guests have at least one table service meal per day.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Hmmmm, where to start. I am not really prejudiced against southerners, not at all. In fact I have some very good friends from the south. But yes, there is something that makes me prefer the clientele at DL or DLP (that was not a joke). I haven't quite put my finger on it yet. Also, I have nothing against people of all incomes visiting the resorts, I went through a very poor period of being homeless in my youth. But to maintain the specialness of WDW, that is why the off property sites are a good prospect. If I wanted to go more often, then I would likely stay at a Holiday Inn Express or Best Western. My beef is why are the deluxes so much more expenive with rubbish service (certainly I have had better service at motels in the past). If I were paying $50-$150 a night, I would be less picky, and indeed I think that is the mentality many WDW visitors now have. But it then starts to extend into the parks, and dining. Mr X had a great time when he went, and frankly I think it's because he stayed off site. Others that adore WDW either seem to have cars or go for short breaks. But after being there for 10 days using Disney transport, I felt ripped off. If I had a car, and maybe styed at DVC or MArriott off site, I would have probably had a much better time (also leaving the MIL at home would have probably been a huge help too). I will admit, I am a snob. I will not frequent Butlins or places like Blackpool (think Murtle Beach) because of the people they attract, and things like the values and free DDP are doing something similar. Disney used to be a premium brand, it no longer is. From the toys that break within a few weeks of purchase, to the tee shirts that fade within a few washes, they do not offer the quality they once did. I do not go to Disney for cartoon characters, I go for a variety of quality, family friendly, highly themed experiences, and WDW s offering that less and less. It is really sad, because I was blown away by the experience when we honeymooned their in 2000, stayng at Dixie Landings. Things seem to have fallen so far (just like Disneyland in the Pressler years or DLP in the late 90's early 2000's). But for every bad thing they did at those resorts, there seemed to be 2 good things offered up there. I cannot say the same at WDW. When I reflect on my trip, as UKFAN said, we were there at the same time (and indeed we had a fantastic times in some reguards), the things that urked me were mainly hotel/transport/service related (in relation to DL and DLP). I am not an inexperienced traveller either. I have lived in hotels and restaurants for the last 12 years of my life, and I do not think this helps. If I were a teacher in New Orleans or an accountant in the frozen north, I would likely have a very different outlook. But when I see subpar service compared to non Disney brands or indeed next to DL and DLP, then I will state my views. If you go back and read my WDW trip report from 2006, it was pretty even highlighting a lot of what was good. But it was when we stayed in DLP 6 months later to meet with Lulu and Dr Frootloop, that I realised how much better our experience was at DLP, and how it cost us much less (not just the travel componant), that's when I started to get really grumpy. Then compre it to our faultless 6 days at the Grand Californian earlier this year, well, I feel it is my duty to speak out and warn people.
Originally Posted By danyoung SuperDry, your reasoning about the $23 burger, while plausible, is still speculation. My speculation is that the folks that normally would be dining at fast food places use their free DDP to come in to the fancy schmancy Chefs de France where they can't find anything they want to eat. Voila - a $23 burger on the menu. Not only do they get something they're familiar with, but they get it at a high perceived value. Other menus have been dumbed down, and chicken fingers and macaroni have shown up on formerly elegant menus, indicating that a lot of the current (free) DDP users don't want fine dining - they want what they're used to while sitting in a fancy restaurant. Elitist? Yeah, somewhat. But it's what I've seen over the past 3 years or so, and it's a very bad trend.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Agreed Dan, and this is my chief complaint. MK - Mexican and noodle bar were shut, so only dining options for counter service was the usual hot dogs, burgers, chick, fish and salads. Epcot - menus seemed dumbed down across the board since our 2000 trip. DAK - this has improved, but I was disappointed with Tusher House becoming a buffet DHS - menu at 50's and Sci Fi had been downsized. The hotels still seemed ok at least.
Originally Posted By danyoung >Tusher House becoming a buffet...< That would be Tusker House. Tusher House is in a much nastier theme park . . .
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Lol - what a typo. I wonder if Tusher house would offer princess and fairy meet and greets??? >;-)>
Originally Posted By CarolinaDisneyDad Dave, I'm not trying to pick at you, I just don't understand the difference in someone staying off property or in a value to the deluxe customer. The resorts are tucked away so that, unless one is trying see them, nobody sees them. Other than getting to use extra magic hours, these guests don't show up anywhere that they wouldn't show up if they were staying off property. It's not like the values bring in a lower clientelle than the off property places. If they are like me they can't afford the DDP anyway so they are't clogging up the restaurants. I do think Disney should rethink giving the DDP away as a perk because it crowds the restaurants with people who are basically eating for free and prevents paying customers like me from being able to get a seat. I don't see how that program is a money maker for the restaurants. I get that you are snobbish ( and I don't mean that as an insult the way it sounds but I couldn't think of a better word) but that is your right and if you are traveling from England and dropping a load of cash at Disney then you have a right to expect priority service. I would have thought that for the price at the deluxes they would have more of everything, like extra bus service, and priority dining etc. For the price you are paying you should be treated as a deluxe guest and given special treatment. I thought that was what a deluxe was all about and you should complain if you aren't getting what you are paying for. I just don't like the idea that because I'm on a budget I shouldn't get to stay in the world. just the view from the other side. Not trying to argue because I enjoy reading you posts and in general I usually agree with you, just not here.
Originally Posted By danyoung CDD, I'll let dave answer first, but I have something to say on the above topic once he does. But I did want to highlight this - >I do think Disney should rethink giving the DDP away as a perk because it crowds the restaurants with people who are basically eating for free and prevents paying customers like me from being able to get a seat.< You are so correct in this. And it's this same situation that's causing the menus to be dumbed down. There's such a high percentage of folks who are used to burgers & fries, and are now confronted with fine French or Moroccan menus, and they make noise that there's nothing on the menu for them. Thus, Disney puts chicken fingers and macaroni and burgers on the fine menus, and brings the previous 15 entrees down to 7. Good trend for Disney, very bad for those of us who want the finer foods and fuller menus. And yeah, it's kinda snobbish. But it's the way I feel.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Mr X had a great time when he went, and frankly I think it's because he stayed off site. Others that adore WDW either seem to have cars or go for short breaks. But after being there for 10 days using Disney transport, I felt ripped off.*** Well, perhaps. I'd love to stay in a nice Disney resort though (it's tough to justify though, with family living in the area and all...the cookout option adds a lot to THAT equation if nothing else lol)... But in any case, I would say that having a car was helpful, and I would never stay at Disney without one handy honestly (even if we felt like not using if for a day or two). I can sympathize with your feeling ripped off by Disney transport. What they advertise is certainly not what they deliver (and yet they did, all the way up til the early 90's when they created "Bus Kingdom").
Originally Posted By danyoung >What they advertise is certainly not what they deliver...< What do they advertise that they don't deliver? They make it very clear that the monorails and boats don't go everywhere, and that busses are the other option. I think they call it "clean, convenient bus transportation" in the videos, and that's pretty close to what they provide.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***SuperDry, your reasoning about the $23 burger, while plausible, is still speculation. My speculation is that the folks that normally would be dining at fast food places use their free DDP to come in to the fancy schmancy Chefs de France where they can't find anything they want to eat. Voila - a $23 burger on the menu. Not only do they get something they're familiar with, but they get it at a high perceived value. Other menus have been dumbed down, and chicken fingers and macaroni have shown up on formerly elegant menus, indicating that a lot of the current (free) DDP users don't want fine dining - they want what they're used to while sitting in a fancy restaurant.*** I thought SuperDry's speculation was pretty much exactly what you wrote here. No?
Originally Posted By CarolinaDisneyDad Dan , I don't think it is snobbish to expect French food at a French restaurant. Changing the menu to Basic items negates the purpose of having different restaurants. Disney should just make it the best French restaurant possible. Do away with the free DDP and cater to those who appreciate great french cuisine. Basic american items should only be on the kids menu. BTW we don't like much french food but do love Italian. One question. Why would Disney listen to someone who goes to a french restaurant to order american cuisine? It makes no sense.
Originally Posted By Mr X I thought the buffet at the Tusker house was fairly interesting for a buffet (in fact, unusually so in a theme park). I honestly thought it was an improvement, actually (I ate at Tusker house before the buffet and thought it was no great shakes). The Tusher house in downtown Orlando has a great buffet as well, but the cover charge is a killer and you have to bring lots of dollar bills along with you too (leave the family back at the all-stars, for gods sake!).
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I don't think it is snobbish to expect French food at a French restaurant.*** Bingo. ***Basic american items should only be on the kids menu.*** I don't even see why that should be an issue. If you have picky kids, don't go to ethnic restaurants and expect kiddie food (AMERICAN style kiddie food at that!). What's wrong with a kids menu such as you might find in...wait for it... France?
