Originally Posted By RoadTrip I think part of Dave's problem is the old familiarity breeds contempt thing. That combined with the fact that NOTHING is ever going to compare with a honeymoon trip. I have been staying in WDW resorts since 1995 and as far a service goes, I have seen absolutely no difference over time. It is the same as it has always been. Some CM are really great. A few are really poor. I think you notice the poor ones more during subsequent trips. The first time you stay at WDW you are so blown away by the generally high level of customer service that I think you overlook the occasional poor experience. After you've been a frequent visitor you become used to the generally high level of service and get REALLY IRRITATED when you run into something that is not. The overall level of service has not changed. Your expectations have. I've also noticed no real difference between Disneyland and WDW as far as overall CM quality goes. We've never stayed at the GC so I can't comment on that. We have stayed at the Disneyland Hotel several times and I will give a nod to the service at the DLH front desk. Of course I would hope it is darned good when you are paying MAJOR $$ to stay in what is essentially a 50 year old Holiday Inn. We also had a very poor CM experience there. My wife forgot a very expensive bathrobe that she left hanging on the back of the bathroom door when we left. She noticed it missing the same day and called the Disneyland Hotel right away to report it missing and ask if it had been found by housekeeping. It supposedly had not been found... wink wink. Obviously it had been found, there was absolutely no way it would have not been found. Now a DLH housekeeper has the most expensive bathrobe she'll ever have in her life. I hope she is enjoying it. Compare this to when we forgot a clothing item belonging to our daughter at WDW's Dixie Landings. We had not even noticed it missing when a couple of days after returning home we opened a package from WDW and there it was. So there is good and bad at all Disney Parks. I'm glad Dave enjoys DLP and has had excellent service there. On the other hand I have heard absolute horror stories about the CM there and the overall lack of cleanliness in the Paris Parks. As for the All Stars, I enjoy them. I've found the service to be just as good as at any of WDW's other resorts. The bus service is far superior. Because of the volume at the All Stars they run buses far more frequently than for the Deluxe Resorts. They also stop at only one resort during peak times. During slower times they stop at each of the All Stars, but since they are so close together it really doesn't add significantly to the time. Compare this to when you take a bus from the Boardwalk. It also stops at the Swan and at the Dolphin and at the Yacht Club and at the Beach Club before finally getting to the Boardwalk. Dave gave me a little grief about going in the International Gateway and then walking to the front of Epcot to catch a monorail to WDW. I can absolutely assure you that it is at least as fast as the buses. As for the walk, I know I can certainly use the exercise. I truly enjoy WDW more now than I ever have. The one area of decline I've noticed is park cleanliness. But WDW has improved in so many other ways that it doesn't bother me that much. Even though they aren't as clean as they used to be, they still beat any other Theme Park in the country. Of course I am LP's Professor Pangloss... I always see the best of all possible worlds.
Originally Posted By CarolinaDisneyDad Mr X, No problem with French items on kids menu. The only reason I would put some American items on the kids menu is so that their parents can go to the restaurant and not worry about what the kids will eat. This way the menu can stay diverse without affecting the number of patrons who can attend the restaurant due to picky children. Remember it's WDW so alot of the prospective patrons are traveling with kids in tow. As an example, we went to the luau and one of my daughters who is a picky eater ate absolutely nothing so we won't be doing that again. They offered kids meals. Take a look next time you are there at them. Even I would have a hard time eating a black hot dog.
Originally Posted By barboy One thing is certain if the 'World' were magically and suddenly turned back into its former glory or 'best years' as perceived by the die hard Disney traditonalists/EPCOT Center yearners, I would never set foot in that place again.....even if it were free. Sorry, but the days of River Country and paper passports with stamps showing days used up wouldn't interest me in the slightest even assuming the 'World' boasted of super clean parks, a smiling and bright faced cast and high quality shirts for sale in the shops.
Originally Posted By danyoung >I thought SuperDry's speculation was pretty much exactly what you wrote here.< X's speculation was that the burger was put on the menu to take the place of a high dollar beef item, saving Disney money. Mine was that it's there to placate the DDP folks who don't see anything on the menu to please them. Either scenario is bad customer service by Disney, IMO.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo It is maybe not the issue of the guests, but management's egotistical approach to cuts (see the Where's the Beef thread). My issue is, if I were paying Value Resort (or even moderate) prices, my expectations would perhaps not be as high. But when the deluxes expect rates higher than a Four Seasons or a Ritz Carlton and deliver a service that is many ways equal to or worse than a value, there seems to be something wrong there. If Disney were always trying to raise the bar rather than lower it, I would have no problem. But it seems like the degradation seems to be commensurate with WDW aiming for the budget crowds. Whereas stayng off site and using the parks didn't seem to be the same. DLP is not perfect, far from, and there are things that are not as good as WDW. But each trip, things are getting better. I cannot say the same of WDW. Everyone says we must have had bad luck, but when I read Spirit and Malin's trip reports (other international Disney park hoppers), then maybe not. I have been wondering about giving WDW another try in the future if we take a cruise (they are cheaper from Fla than any of the other ports). I know now taking a car is the best options. However, they did talk about convenient transport - sorry, where our public bus picks up every 15 mins down the street is convenient. 40+ min waits at the hotel is not.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Actually, I think most French kids menus would appeal to most picky eaters. The side is almost always fries or pasta. The main is often - steak hache (ground beef patty), le hot dog, poulle (grilled chicken) or croque monseur (grilled cheese sandwich with creme) But yes, the whole lack of tables and dumbing down menus at WDW is really irksome.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>and I don't mean that as an insult the way it sounds but I couldn't think of a better word) but that is your right and if you are traveling from England and dropping a load of cash at Disney then you have a right to expect priority service. <<< I am not trying to sound crass. I simply expect a service at a deluxe in WDW to be on par with a deluxe in Anaheim and Paris - sadly it is not. California and PAris offer 24 hour room service, and quality cast members.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>I think part of Dave's problem is the old familiarity breeds contempt thing. That combined with the fact that NOTHING is ever going to compare with a honeymoon trip.<<< But why do I not feel that way about DL where I have been probably more than 300 times in my life, or DLP on 51 occassions. And some of those have been better than our honeymoon?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>and the overall lack of cleanliness in the Paris Parks.<<< This is true, it can be pretty bad. But I have been three times since my last WDW trip. All three times were cleaner than the MK on our 2006 trip. That speaks volumes considering the problems DLP can have.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Hey Spirt you weren't at Stormalong in first week of Oct. '05 were you?? Your story has some overlap to mine.>> Nope. Sadly my visit came in 2001. But I think what our 'similar' incendents show is that these so-called isolated incidents really arent't and that a lot of trash visits WDW (anecdotally I'll state a huge increase in the past decade!) and they stay at the deluxe resorts just as often as the values.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >So it grows tiresome to hear absurd notions puked forth here that EPCOT was ever in danger of being closed or even seriously sold off...< <<And you wonder why I've so many times pledged my undying adulation to you, oh Spirit!>> Nah ... you (and that Martian Pierce character) are proof of intelligent life in Texas! <<Still waiting for Sport Goofy's sources . . .>> I'm still waiting for him to say anything critical of Disney management!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Oh my God!! Another Spirit minion. Is it legal for him to have more than one at once? ;-)>> This is the good old USofA ... who cares if it's legal, so long as you've got the money and power to get away with it. I'm signing up minions as fast as I can this holiday season since I need them to break into homes after Santa has made his stops and bring the gifts to me ....bwahhhh hahhhhahhhh ...
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Why do you insist on making this stuff up? It's pretty easy to look up revenue/earnings/borrowing data on any corporation in the days of the internet.>> I don't make things up. I may not always be 100% accurate, but I don't come here to spin management agendas. Now ... I don't have the time to check, so for argument sake I'm going to say your numbers are 100% accurate. So ... <<Disney's borrowings went from $18M in 1979 to $457M in 1983. If they paid for EPCOT in cash, what were they borrowing all that money for? >> EC cost over a billion dollars (when you add Horizons in) ... and that was simply the construction and associated costs alone. Not anything that came after. You take a figure of $457 million of borrowed funds and make it appear that all of that went to EC. That TWDC had no reason to borrow money for anything else ... from other projects in parks and resorts (like say a whole new Fantasyland in Anaheim for instance) ... to their faltering film division ... to the startup costs of The Disney Channel that debutted in 1983 and Touchtone Pics, which also started up in the same period. Now, if you want to say that SOME of that $457 million went into EC's development and opening, I'll agree with that. ... I believe I originally said EC was 'largely' built with cash. But I think it's more than a bit disingenuous when Disney was spending on so many major things in the early 80s to just say all of those borrowings were for EPCOT ...which even if true still would have only bought half a park! <<Earnings declined from a high water mark of $3.72 in 1981 to $2.70 in 1983.>> Considering the inherent costs with a development of EC's scope, as well as the other MAJOR developments in Walt Disney Productions at the same time it is no wonder that earnings declined. And as I believe you stated, there was a recession in the 1981-82 timeframe as well which I'm sure didn't help on any front. <<Financially, the company was looking at a scenario where they would be cash-flow negative for the foreseeable future. They did a few things -- raised admission prices, got a 20 year advance payment on their Tokyo Disneyland royalties, and did some hotel deals at WDW.>> Admission increases were very small (tiny almost) and infrequent until Eisner and Wells took over. So I'm not sure what increases you are referring to. I'm also not familiar with Disney's royalty agreemen with OLC, although a 20-year advance seems on the surface to sound crazy to me. And as for hotel deals, Disney had very, very few back in those days. I recall as a Florida resident being able to get rooms at the Contemporary for say $99 in September and January ... but there were none of the massive discounting that we see annually now whether things are great ecoonomically (say 1998) or depression like (say now!) <<That stemmed the bleeding until the movie studio finally saved the company and Baby Boomers started to vacation with small children in a massive demographic wave that was tremendously beneficial to WDW.>> I didn't know it was the Studios that saved the company. Here I always thought Orlando was Burbank's ATM machine for decades when times were good. You should apply for a job with The Mouse, Goof ... you're so great at spin.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<It's OK, Trippy - Spirit knows I'll bust his chops just as quickly as I'll praise the ground he walks on. I just like it when he makes sense.>> Am I making sense today? I am taking my meds. And watching the big media analysts advising dumping Mouse stock! <<And SG, you quote some interesting numbers. Nothing in there proves anything beyond conjecture. What Spirit said agreed with my memory and knowledge of the time. But I'm anxious to read more, as well as Spirit's inevitable countering of your last post.>> See if my post makes any sense ... I'm sure you'll get back to me! ;-)
Originally Posted By gottaluvdavillains <<But I think what our 'similar' incendents show is that these so-called isolated incidents really arent't and that a lot of trash visits WDW (anecdotally I'll state a huge increase in the past decade!) and they stay at the deluxe resorts just as often as the values.>> You know it's really sad that you feel it necessary to call other people doing the same thing we all do - saving money for what might be a vacation of a lifetime - Trash.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Nice.>> Yep. SuperDry did a great job of 'splaining the magical WalMarting of WDW Dining during the 'free' dining period. <<What if you wanted a high-end beef dish though? ;p>> Well ... if you were smart you'd take a walk over to the Dolphin and eat at Shula's. No WalMarting there. But you could also walk upstairs to the Bistro de Paris (not on the DDP) and get a real beef entree that isn't a $23 hamburger (no cheese that would likely add another buck or two!)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<You could go to Le Cellier in Canada, which charges 2 DDP sit-down meal credits for each meal, which allows them to maintain a more normal menu.>> Is that a new change? When I went for the 'free' dining periods in 2006 and '07 Le Cellier was only one credit each. (But I did make my PS like five months in advance!)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Hmmmm, where to start. I am not really prejudiced against southerners, not at all. In fact I have some very good friends from the south. But yes, there is something that makes me prefer the clientele at DL or DLP (that was not a joke). I haven't quite put my finger on it yet.>> I have ... I think while there's plenty of trashy guests at ALL the Disney resorts there's more of it at WDW. There's also a (and REALLY not trying to stir the political cauldron here) a very conservative vibe amongst large swaths of WDW guests. I've gotten so many dirty looks at WDW when I'm hanging out with my brother or my male friends (some gay, some not) and you can get a really good idea of what their issues may be. In Anaheim, two teenboys will be kissing in front of the castle and no one looks twice. I'm probably never going to hear the end of the above, but I really feel a lot of close-minded bigots tend to make WDW the place for their magical family vacations ... and as the years go by I sense more and more hostility ... now maybe they're all just angry at getting screwed over by the Mouse, I dunno. But it's something palpable when I am there. I don't get that at DL, DLP or HKDL. OK ... this should be good.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Mmmmmmmm, I think you could be on to something Spirit (that also goes for a lot of the UK visitors too).
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << I'm also not familiar with Disney's royalty agreemen with OLC, although a 20-year advance seems on the surface to sound crazy to me. >> Interesting that someone who claims to know so much about WDC in the early 80s didn't know they did this.
