Originally Posted By RoadTrip In Springfield, a couple of times in the past year. They weren't geriatric but they were white males with mental health issues. That's why at times I'm not so quick to say the motivation is racial... Missouri cops are hard-assed with everyone. In Springfield there are hardly any Blacks for them to shoot... Black population is under 3%.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<They weren't geriatric but they were white males with mental health issues.>> That's the difference, isn't it? If those men were under 60 and working class with mental health issues, then nobody in the media or red state government is going to mourn their loss. But if the victim is a white upper middle class male over 65, it doesn't matter if he has dementia or not. Just the cops shooting someone in that demographic makes the media go batsh*t crazy. And if the victim has Alzheimer's, the outcry is even greater. The closer the victim is on the socioeconomic scale to the top 1%, the greater the likelihood of the cop losing his badge and possibly going to jail.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox The DOJ desperately needs to conduct a thorough investigation into law enforcement in Missouri and the growing problem with bigoted crazy officers such as this guy: <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/22/dan-page-st-louis-police-officer_n_5702000.html">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...000.html</a> <> A police officer who pushed a CNN journalist on live television in Ferguson, Missouri, this week has been relieved of duty following the discovery of a videotaped speech in which he criticized President Barack Obama, Muslims and gays in the military. St. Louis County cop Dan Page, a 35-year police veteran, also denounced hate crime laws and boasted of killings he claimed to have committed in the remarks delivered to a group called the Oath Keepers of St. Louis and St. Charles. Its members vow to uphold the Constitution and are drawn from the military, law enforcement and emergency responders. "Policemen are very cynical. I know I am," Page says from a podium on the video. "I hate everybody. I'm into diversity. I kill everybody." CNN's Don Lemon, who was pushed by Page on Monday at demonstrations triggered by the police killing of Michael Brown, obtained the video. It was uploaded to YouTube in April, but it was unclear when the recording was made. County Police Chief Jon Belmar suspended Page after watching the video. Belmar told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch he would have fired Page if a review weren't first required. The review will begin Monday and Page will be told to undergo a psychological evaluation, according to USA Today. Reading from the Declaration of Independence and the Bible, and talking about his past as a Green Beret, Page claims on the video that the federal government has abused its power. "We have no business passing hate crime laws. None. Because we're setting aside a group of people special," Page says. "We got a Supreme Court out of control with laws on sodomy," he says later. At other points, he calls Obama an "illegal alien" and shows a photo of himself in Kenya. "i went to our undocumented president's home. He was born in Kenya." But it was Page's flippant talk about violence that Belmar said he found particularly alarming. He "was disturbed by the conversation being had. Chief Belmar does not expect this kind of rhetoric from his officers, just like they don't expect it from him," according to a statement on the department's Facebook page. "Chief Belmar, on behalf of the St. Louis County Police Department, would like to apologize to the community, anyone that video has or will effect, and to the other hard working officers on the detail with the officer in question because they deserve better than that. While the officer has never been involved in an officer involved shooting, the statements made about killing are unacceptable and not what we are about as a Department." There's even a disclaimer on YouTube to distance the Oath Keepers from Page's commentary. "The statements made by Sargent Major Dan Page do not reflect the opinions of our local Oath Keeper Chapter, nor the national organization. Dan Page, speaking to the St. Louis/St. Charles, Missouri Chapter of Oath Keepers, explains how they plan to end American sovereignty and the Constitution, establishing martial law and merging the U.S. with the New World Order." <> Totally beyond the pale. This guy and his fellow "Oath Keepers" are worse than the wannabe soldier militants who aimed their loaded weapons at Federal officials at the Bundy Ranch. Wanna know what the real problem is with law enforcement in Ferguson? Just listen to this a**hat and you'll know.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Welcome to Missouri. Why do people here tolerate the behavior of police? Because they largely support it. Outside of Kansas City and St. Louis, the state is VERY conservative.
Originally Posted By Donny So we judge this police officer based on actions that happened a while ago but we should not Judge Mike Brown for what he did a couple hours before his altercation with a police officer. hmmmmmmmm
Originally Posted By ecdc >>we should not Judge Mike Brown for what he did a couple hours before his altercation with a police officer.<< Apparently Donny lives in a world where shooting an unarmed man who has stolen cigars is more acceptable than shooting an unarmed man. Donny, you need to understand: both of those things are equally unacceptable. No matter how much you and the other blame the victimers dig up on Michael Brown, it does not matter. If you are advocating that shooting an unarmed man is somehow more acceptable because of past behavior, and not because he was a threat to the police officer, well that is both ignorant and terrifying. For a Tea Partier who's really worried about Constitutionality and the intent of the Founders...yikes.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "So we judge this police officer based on actions that happened a while ago but we should not Judge Mike Brown for what he did a couple hours before his altercation with a police officer. hmmmmmmmm" Judge Mike Brown all you want. Let's let the justice system handle the robbery. Oh wait....
Originally Posted By Donny I think we should judge both on there past actions and let local investigators do there jobs.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>let local investigators do there jobs<< Really, you mean the local investigators who were pointing the assault weapons at unarmed protesters in the street? The local investigators who put up police tape around the courthouse and refused to let anyone inside? Why on earth should we trust these investigators? Why one earth would we rely on them when they've shown every indication of smearing the victim and protecting their own?
Originally Posted By ecdc So Donny, just to be clear: you are super suspicious of government authority when it involves your taxes, but you have zero beef with military-style police shooting unarmed citizens and kicking down the doors of private homes at 2:00AM and storming them? The Founders were deeply worried about standing armies being able to invade your home, but now hundreds of times a week, SWAT teams do *exactly* what the Founders hated, and you're cool with that?
Originally Posted By KiroyIsHere Here is a naval idea: Why not wait for the evidence to come forward first before casting stones? Oh that's right the days of innocent before guilty are over with.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Here is a naval idea<< Next-level trolling. >>Oh that's right the days of innocent before guilty are over with.<< Next-level irony.
Originally Posted By Donny I am not saying this police officer is innocent but what I am doing is waiting to see what the investigators have to say.
Originally Posted By KiroyIsHere Rockhead does not even realize that his post makes him look like me His SUB ntellect I just can't FATHOM
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Maybe he should do the GENERAL thing rather than the ADMIRAL thing... ;-)
Originally Posted By ecdc >>what I am doing is waiting to see what the investigators have to say.<< Donny, we get what you're saying. What you're not getting is the game is rigged. Here's the story of Dirk Dickenson: Anti-drug units in Humboldt County mistakenly believed a massive drug lab was in operation at Dirk Dickenson's farmhouse. This, in itself, was pure idiocy, but that's another point altogether. They raided the house with a helicopter, broke down the door, and shot Dickenson in the back as he was fleeing. He was unarmed. Fortunately, the overconfident cops invited reporters along, otherwise it's likely we wouldn't know much about this. After this happened, an attorney went to see the property days after the raid. He found, unbelievable, a small "lab" set up on the property. The police said nothing about it, and later claimed they'd missed it. It turns out that they had set it up and planted it for the attorney to find. The police quickly covered each other's asses. One cop claimed to trip, which caused the shooting officer, genuine psychopath Lloyd Clifton (who had previously beaten numerous suspects) to believe he had been shot, which led him to break down the door and shoot the suspect (who was innocent all along). Charges against Lloyd Clifton were quickly dismissed, and the lone attorney who brought them was vilified. That was in 1972. Since then, *hundreds* of wrong house raids have happened in this country. The cops bust down the door, scream at the owners, threaten them, and occasionally kill them (and frequently kill their pets). The excuse is always the same, and we've even heard some of them here: Hey, cops are human. They're fighting the bad guys, there's bound to be some casualties. We've decided that millions of nonviolent Americans are criminals and we detain them, harass them, and even break down their doors to their homes. We have created an environment where cops see regular citizens as the enemy (including you and me, Donny), and then they cover for each other when they royally screw up. Frequently (though not always) prosecutors are in on it as well, and other investigators. These "investigators" you are waiting for and trust so implicitly, Donny, are likely (based on precedent) to find that the officer who shot Michael Brown did so in self-defense...whether it's true or not. It is next-to-impossible to get a conviction for a cop using excessive force.
Originally Posted By ecdc BTW, I took Dickenson's story from "Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America's Police Forces" by Radley Balko. It's very good - it shows just how far we've gone with allowing cops to trample our liberties, and we do it because they largely target African Americans and lower-class Americans. They're not likely to kick in my door tonight, so we just shrug when they do it to someone else. The thing is, this should be an issue that crosses party lines. Liberals should be on board because police brutality is largely racist and classist; conservatives should absolutely be on board because it violates the framer's intentions with the 3rd and 4th Amendments, and libertarians should be on board because duh.
