Originally Posted By wendebird >>But if the discussion got out of hand, that's definitely a good reason for closing a thread. I don't see that this thread has gotten out of hand, so I see no justification for closing it.<< I think I'm missing something here. Did someone say they were going to close this thread? I don't remember seeing that anywhere.
Originally Posted By cstephens I don't remember what post it was in, but JazzCat said he/she was being nice by not asking the admins to have this thread closed. /cs
Originally Posted By goodgirl cstephens, I think if you start a thread and don't like where its going you can request that it be closed. I've heard from LPers who have done that.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<Name an instance where a Christian wasn't allowed to practice their religion, go to church, vote, marry who they like, etc., because of "libs.">> Do I really need to like the ACLU lawsuits against Christians and Christian symbols ecdc? I can get you dozens if not hundreds... all set up to restrict a Christian from practicing their religion using a twisted meaning of church and state. Who is the ACLU??? Left wing liberals who make it a carrer to attack Christians.
Originally Posted By wendebird >> don't remember what post it was in, but JazzCat said he/she was being nice by not asking the admins to have this thread closed.<< yes, I do remember reading something like that. But IMO, that's different from saying she IS going to shut it down because it's gotten out of hand. (in reference to post #157) FWIW, the OP can ask the ADMIN's to shut down any thread they start. So in a way, they do kinda "own" the thread.
Originally Posted By alexbook Okay, I told myself I wasn't going to get drawn back into this thread, but I can't let the repeated attacks on the ACLU go without some sort of response. >>Who is the ACLU??? Left wing liberals who make it a carrer to attack Christians.<< From <a href="http://www.aclu.org/religion/tencomm/16254res20050302.html" target="_blank">http://www.aclu.org/religion/t encomm/16254res20050302.html</a>: September 20, 2005: ACLU of New Jersey joins lawsuit supporting second-grader's right to sing "Awesome God" at a talent show. August 4, 2005: ACLU helps free a New Mexico street preacher from prison. May 25, 2005: ACLU sues Wisconsin prison on behalf of a Muslim woman who was forced to remove her headscarf in front of male guards and prisoners. February 2005: ACLU of Pennsylvania successfully defends the right of an African American Evangelical church to occupy a church building purchased in a predominantly white parish. December 22, 2004: ACLU of New Jersey successfully defends right of religious expression by jurors. December 14, 2004: ACLU joins Pennsylvania parents in filing first-ever challenge to "Intelligent Design" instruction in public schools. November 20, 2004: ACLU of Nevada supports free speech rights of evangelists to preach on the sidewalks of the strip in Las Vegas. November 12, 2004: ACLU of Georgia files a lawsuit on behalf of parents challenging evolution disclaimers in science textbooks. November 9, 2004: ACLU of Nevada defends a Mormon student who was suspended after wearing a T-shirt with a religious message to school. August 11, 2004: ACLU of Nebraska defends church facing eviction by the city of Lincoln. July 10, 2004: Indiana Civil Liberties Union defends the rights of a Baptist minister to preach his message on public streets. June 9, 2004: ACLU of Nebraska files a lawsuit on behalf of a Muslim woman barred from a public pool because she refused to wear a swimsuit. June 3, 2004: Under pressure from the ACLU of Virginia, officials agree not to prohibit baptisms on public property in Falmouth Waterside Park in Stafford County. May 11, 2004: After ACLU of Michigan intervened on behalf of a Christian Valedictorian, a public high school agrees to stop censoring religious yearbook entries. March 25, 2004: ACLU of Washington defends an Evangelical minister's right to preach on sidewalks. February 21, 2003: ACLU of Massachusetts defends students punished for distributing candy canes with religious messages. October 28, 2002: ACLU of Pennsylvania files discrimination lawsuit over denial of zoning permit for African American Baptist church. July 11, 2002: ACLU supports right of Iowa students to distribute Christian literature at school. April 17, 2002: In a victory for the Rev. Jerry Falwell and the ACLU of Virginia, a federal judge strikes down a provision of the Virginia Constitution that bans religious organizations from incorporating. January 18, 2002: ACLU defends Christian church's right to run "anti-Santa" ads in Boston subways.
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Originally Posted By BlueDevilSF ^^^ According to those on this site who despise the ACLU, the organization takes a few "token" cases as a way to gain respectability among the religious right-wingers.
Originally Posted By ecdc Beau, you might take a note out of Alex's page - specific examples and all that. You've just offered more generalities.
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Originally Posted By BlueDevilSF >>STPH doesn't want to get into this because I have taken him to the ever so famous woodshed on this subject many times on here.<< Funny, I seem to recall these incidents the other way around.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<Beau, you might take a note out of Alex's page - specific examples and all that. You've just offered more generalities.>> He listed cases where thesy stood up for free speech in "certain" cases. Even Saddam was a good guy 10% of the time. This doesn't change the fact that they have THOUSANDS of cases against religion and go out of their way to destroy traditional American family values and help terrorists everywhere. Your actually going to argue that the ACLU HELPS America? Good luck, bring it on. By the way, this goes back to the original post which asked why it was OK to make fun of Christians. The ACLU will NEVER go against a homosexual or a Muslim, yet they have gone against Christians every chance they get. They also would NEVER go against an abortion doctor. Look it up.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy >>STPH doesn't want to get into this because I have taken him to the ever so famous woodshed on this subject many times on here.<< Funny, I seem to recall these incidents the other way around.>> Then you remember wrong Tim. I would open another ACLU debate thread and take him on one on one but we all know he would make some excuse.
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder "Funny, I seem to recall these incidents the other way around." Yup, and it gets really tiresome. My favorite of course is the gay marriage stuff. I still have an open invitation to anyone who could cite to some legal authority or make a legal argument in that area, as it would be refreshing to debate someone who could do that intelligently. Instead, we get blustery hoo hah from our friend on any number of issues.
Originally Posted By gadzuux That's why you libs will never get elected to anything, and are best left running a bathhouse because your devoid of any ideas, love saddam, and want to see us fail in iraq so bush will look bad but it won't work because the military love bush and have already won the war - three of them even - and the liberal media and the aclu and the activist judges and the socialists in san francisco should just leave bush alone to do whatever he wants and stop asking all those questions because this is work for grown-ups who live for kicking dem butt.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy See, I put the word out about the ACLU and this is what I get in return for debate. There is simply no way to argue that the ACLU is good for America or that they are not anti Christian. The mountain of evidence is hard to ignore if your honest. << My favorite of course is the gay marriage stuff. I still have an open invitation to anyone who could cite to some legal authority or make a legal argument in that area,>> Gays have the same rights as the rest of us when it comes to marriage. They can't do anything I can't do legally. I can't marry a guy either. We are all in the same boat legally. Don't like the current law?? Take it to the voters and get it changed so gay marriage is legal. This is how America works. Hold on.... they DID vote on gay married about a dozen times in various states including Oregon... and it got CRUSHED every single time. So, yes, take it to the supreme court and see if Scalia, Thomas, Roberts, Alito or any other judge besides Ruth Buzzy or Suiter buy into the nonsense that these people are being discriminated against anymore than I am or a polyigamist is. Lagally, you can't argue a winner withour legalizing every other type of marriage.. and that includes marrying my sister, mother, or the Johnson triplets.
Originally Posted By BlueDevilSF >>See, I put the word out about the ACLU and this is what I get in return for debate. There is simply no way to argue that the ACLU is good for America or that they are not anti Christian.<< See, this is why it's futile to debate *anything* with you. You see the world in black and white. Same with the ACLU. Rather than accept that the ACLU has worked on issues in which you believe, you simply dismiss them out of hand, saying they're tokens. And you refuse to let it go and will refuse to let it go until and unless your political party says it's OK to do so.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy If Saddam kills people 6 days a week but has a free brunch in his palace one day a week is Saddam a good guy? The ACLU fits this bill regarding being good for America. If your a communist or a hard core socialist who hates America and everything we are, I can see you being a fan of the ACLU. If your a terrorist I can see you loving the ACLU. If you are an atheist who thinks Christians are stupid hicks I can see you loving the ACLU. If your a late term abortion doctor I can see you loving the ACLU. However, if you are a fan of family values, capitalism, strong anti terrorism measures, freedom of religion, then you are going to HATE the ACLU. It's that black and white.
