Originally Posted By monorailblue One more horrible that hasn't left--the Taco Bell costumes. They are still worn by Autopia, Astro Orbtiter and HISTA Attractions CMs, as well as restaurant and merchandise CMs. Teal, maroon and mustard-gold--what a "joy" to behold!!! They always were horrible, but have gotten even worse with the years. A new take on the classic Autopia costume would be an enormous and welcome change.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy I'm wondering how it's even possible to create a futuristic landscape given the way technology is headed these days. Back in the 50s and 60s, visions of the future were largely described by massive infrastructure projects -- highways, railways, space stations. These readily translate into physical theme park attractions. Today, I think our vision of the future is described more by improvements in the digital realm -- software, ever-shrinking communications equipment, technological enhancement of existing infrastructure. How do you convey these themes in "brick and mortar" designs of an entire land? I don't think it's impossible, but it's certainly different than the mindset that built Walt Disney's Tomorrowland. It's a lot easier to build a monorail or peoplemover than some sort of representation of a circuitboard that will demonstrate what the future is supposed to look like.
Originally Posted By StitchDude There is nothing wrong with trying to hit a moving target. We all know that tomorrowland has been a difficult land since July 17, 1955. But Disneyland was not meant to be what it is today. Walt also wanted it to be a place where people could learn. We all know technology is fickle, but if small amounts of money were put into TL every year there would not be a need to redo the land every 10-15 years. Inno is a good idea that was executed incorrectly and in a bad location. PS: Monorail should be magnetic propulsion at this point. Don't you think?
Originally Posted By 9oldmen >>The Caroussel building had been empty for nearly a decade, CircleVision was running films that were several years old, Captain EO was the "newest" offering,<< Not quite, but close. "EO" opened in the Fall of '86, with Star Tours opening in January '87.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>But Disneyland was not meant to be what it is today. Walt also wanted it to be a place where people could learn.<<< Indeed this is why I fell in love with Disney, I was always learning in a fun way. DL really strove towards this, as did all the additional parks in Florida. Even DCA to a degree. But sadly along the way, that seems to be totally lost. It's a real shame.
Originally Posted By danyoung >It [HISTA] might have been better than what was there before, but it was obviously disappointing.< I have nothing against HISTA, other than that it's time has come and gone. But I really REALLY liked Captain EO. Aside from the wackiness of Mr. Jackson, I thought that show had the best combination of 3D, in-theater effects and great music. I miss it!
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf "There is nothing wrong with trying to hit a moving target." You mean, other than missing it. Everyone is complaining now about TL98 but I bet there weren't a whole lot of complaints when it debuted. I , for one, thought it was pretty cool. If they came out with TL08 with a re-vamped Autopia, Star Tour 2.0, a new People Mover and new paint all around, it would be ridiculed in 5 years because styles will have changed by then. The only constant about the future is that it never turns out the way you expect it.
Originally Posted By SleepingBeauty82 The only thing I really remember about the '98 re-do was the Rocket Rods. I was 15 and I remember riding them and thinking "That was fun but totally not worth the 90 minutes I just waited..." (no Fastpasses, folks). I also didn't even bother with Innoventions. I still have no interest in going into that building unless it's boiling hot and I need some long term A.C.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >> What were your impressions of tommorowland 98? << In pictures it looked refreshing. Disney is always about borrowing from their best elements from other places/parks. So, when I saw they wanted to take the basic scheme of Disneyland Paris' Discoveryland ... and apply the same "Jules Verne" theming .... I thought it was going to be a hit - as it is in Disneyland Paris. At first ... it seemed interesting. But once I began touring what was inside some of these newly remodeled exteriors ... it all began to sink in ... and I realized .. This was "Tomorrowland Lite." Innoventions did not open till August, So, TL98 in May 1998 ... was all about Rocket Rods .. and not a heck of a lot more than that! I already saw "Honey I shrunk the audience" in WDW in 1995. So, I was already seeing a 3 year old show. Not much excitement there ... except to see how different DL's 3-D theater differed from the Imagination pavilion's. The only other attraction that did indeed turn out to be a direct lift from Discoveryland in DLP was the Orbitron .. other known here as the Astro Orbitor. A carbon copy. Along with a set of jagged rocks to surround it ... as also found in DLP's Discoveryland. To this day ... I have never bothered to ride Dumb .. err .. excuse me ... Dumbo/ized version. It was clear to me one reason this was put at the entrance. The land was so scarce of new attractions ... they had to make the entrance look good .. to try to entice people to enter this crappy land. But .. on a more technical level ... this Paris copy ... was too heavy for the original pylon. From what I understand. Moving on ..... Rocket Rods at first seemed mildly entertaining. Each time it popped a wheely .. made it a bit more fun. But I was outraged it took the place over TWO attractions. Tomorrowland needs all the diversity it can get with as many attractions the land can fit. And I'm glad to see that was reversed with Buzz Lightyear eventually taking place of Rocket Rods queue ... and now rumors of a new "Peoplemover" type attraction to take place of the track, once again. Innoventions was one of those things that left my mouth hanging open - Whhhhhat?! WDI had a sign up for 10 years (a whole whopping decade!) that read - We're closed to imagineer a brand new attraction ............ and this was the best they could do?????? As many other LP members have noted .... This is one of the worst attractions they ever created. It's amazing it has hung around for 10 years! For 20 years ... nobody has gotten to see the carousel theater at it's best! America Sings from 1974 to 1988 was charming, it was cute, well executed .. with the magic of Burl Ives voice leading a cast of 114 audio animatronics! Carousel of Progress ... another mega jewel of an attraction!! I can only imagine what it was like completing the show ... and taking that escalator to the top .. to see this massive city model, called PROGRESS CITY! Other impressions ... I thought Cosmic Waves was going to be devised in a way .. so that it was CLEAR .. the point of it ... was to make your way to the center without getting wet. It's called a maze! THEY NEVER MADE THAT CLEAR! And instead it gave new meaning to an old Tomorrowland attraction: The Bathroom of Tomorrow! People practically going "skinny dipping" ... and making Tomorrowland look like a trashy neighborhood. I hope Disney learned their lesson well ... and never attempt anything like that ever again!! Lets see .. what else is there? Ohhhhhhhh......... The "agrifuture" theming? BORING! Not a well executed idea at all! This was them trying to bring in elements of that "Montana Tomorrowland" theme which was a consideration for a time being. Observatron! Lets see ... "We don't want to spend the money to take down the Rocket Jets mechanics. So, lets just dressed up ... Have it spin ... and make people believe it's supposed to do something interesting." Yeah! Right! >>did you find anything you liked about the redo?<< Using the color scheme of Discoveryland in DLP. >>what was the worst thing about the redo in your opinion.?<< Pretty much everything else. But Innoventions is up there pretty high on the list. 83,000 square feet of prime real estate in the center of the land ... filled with Circut City/Frys treats. Oh goodie!!
Originally Posted By oc_dean I forgot about R2P2 ... Redd Rockets Pizza Port. Back in 1995 ... I saw several artist renderings .... they had some cool theming in mind. But little bit .. by little bit ... this place got stripped down to the basic restaurant it is today. But the worst aspect .... it take the place of an attraction! Restaurants and Shops should never take precedent over attractions! Like the phrase - "It's the economy, stupid" .......... well .......... It's about rides, stupid! People don't spend 65 bucks to enter Disneyland to shop and eat! Redd Rockets needs to be moved into another location! The old "Mission to Mars" facility .. or it's location should be dedicated back into a full functioning attraction! Lets not forget a few minor rumors that have been mentioned ...about wholesale demolition from the right side of Space Mountain (Space Place Restaurant) ... all the way up the DLRR station. We could be in for some spectacular renovation plans anytime now. I have my fingers crossed. This time ... it could be the best Tomorrowland renovation .. that could even outdo the 1967 redo.
Originally Posted By jonvn Nothing they do will be better than the 67 version, because that version had an overall theme and was about progress, the future and optimism. Everything they are planning now is either about Star Wars or a cartoon.
Originally Posted By wonderingalice Sad, but probably true, jonvn. '67 was spectacular... It updated what was always my favorite land as a child into something even more fantastic. I wonder if they've ever considered H.G. Wells as a source of inspiration... "The Time Machine" could be interesting.
Originally Posted By oc_dean Latest rumors hinted a new Peoplemover attraction may have NO tie in to any cartoon. And as Bean indicated ... there are other ideas on the burner for TL that have nothing to do with any movie tie in. True .. the cohesive theme behind "TL:67" is hard to beat. I was thinking more in terms of new construction, and number of new attractions to offer. In 67 ... 6 attractions were introduced. In 98 ... 4 2010/whatever ... could be much better than '98.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt Unfortunately I think Jonvn is right. Futurism is a dead concept and the people running Disney these days aren't forward thinking enough to revive the idea into anything meaningful for DL guests. It's not like they are going to rip out Buzz or Nemo and replace them with anything truly futuristic anytime soon.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf "Futurism is a dead concept" Not only that, it is an expensive one. The most advanced technology we have will be outdated in have years. Look at Innoventions for crying out loud. Or Future World at Epcot. And what is the future exactly? Walt Disney's view was utopian in nature but I don't think anyone has that viewpoint anymore. So is the future about computers? Global warming and flooded cities? Space exploration? I think, if you want to keep a Land focused on Tomorrow it has to be themed with safe and timeless concepts such as Star Wars or Jules Verne or cartoons. Otherwise, as I mentioned before, you will be shooting at a target that's impossible to hit (unless you have a time machine).
Originally Posted By jonvn "Not only that, it is an expensive one. The most advanced technology we have will be outdated in have years. " You could make an attraction out of nanotechnology that could last for many years and still be current. "Walt Disney's view was utopian in nature but I don't think anyone has that viewpoint anymore." Maybe Disney could reintroduce it. Disney introduced space travel to the public in the 50s. But this was when the person running the place had actual human feelings about things, rather than the cold blooded types they have now who are only interested in making a buck. The thing is they can make a buck AND do a good job on this stuff, too. I think Star Wars as a theme while fun, is very dystopian. It's all about war and killing. Really, cartoons are done everywhere in the park. Please don't suggest that they should put in more. And you need to parse out what Bean says very carefully. While there is no cartoon tie in, that does not mean there is not some other film tie in. The area should be about OUR future, progress, technology and optimism. That's what it was always about, and what made it as great as it was. Now it's about war, cartoons, and shooting. With a big Circuit City tossed in the back to show you PCs from five years ago. ugh.
Originally Posted By friendofdd >>>You could make an attraction out of nanotechnology that could last for many years and still be current.<<< Nano technology. That is the small stuff isn't it? Maybe they could have a car that you climb into at your normal size, then, as it moves along, you and the car would shrink until the nano objects became super-sized. It could be educational as well as entertaining.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf "The area should be about OUR future, progress, technology and optimism." I think there is a growing segment of the population that has a pessimistic view of technology for the future. Technology has brought us nuclear weapons, automated answering systems, cloning, global warming, etc. I would like to be optimistic about future technology but I am not. Yes, we my find cures for illnesses but that may lead to overpopulation. We may have faster computers but that will lead to obsolescence of jobs. We may ween ourselves off of oil but alternative sources of energy have their own problems. Disneyland is a world of fantasy and I think our fantastic view of the future is not the same as it was in Walt's day.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt ^^I agree, however Disney could (and should) take a more positive optimistic view of future technology. After all it is technology that brings us all the wonderful things that we enjoy at Disney's parks.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Disneyland is a world of fantasy and I think our fantastic view of the future is not the same as it was in Walt's day.> It's not. Is it possible that every age gets the Tomorrowland it deserves?? But another way to keep the future from being too much of a moving target or going obsolete too quickly is to shoot FURTHER in the future. Originally 1955 TL was supposed to be 1986. But instead of shooting 30 years in the future, why not 400? Imagine THAT, and what might be, then design something around it.
