It's A Small World on the Today Show this morning!

Originally Posted By gottaluvdavillains

On the other thread in this section about this topic there is a picture showing an empty boat stuck in the turn - Some people enjoy pointing at people and making fun of them - this is just the same as the other thread - just another way to make fun of some of us. I guess if that makes you feel better about yourself - then you should be feeling really good about now. I will say it again - Disney decided how they wanted to "spin" this and Lutz put out his opinion - either way the ride is being updated and that should make everyone happy - no mater what size you are!! I am sure Disney is just thrilled that some of their employees are choosing to come to forums like these and tell us all what they think Disney really thinks - Unless you were sitting in on the meetings that took place to decide on how and why the boats were getting stuck - then you are only speaking on behalf of yourself not Disney - I find it hard to believe Disney has sent you here to tell us all we are too fat for their rides and we broke it!!

 

Originally Posted By jonvn

"Which category are you in?"

Neither.

Thanks for trying to be clever.

 

Originally Posted By 550Deano

FACT...Boats are getting stuck
FACT...People ride in the boats
FACT...An empty boat gets stuck at a corner, not weight related
FACT...People provide the weight in a boat
FACT...People who are bigger than the norm cause this to happen
FACT...Seen it many times with my own two eyes
FACT...I'm a professional Fireman/Paramedic who happens to work part-time at Disneyland
FACT...Over 15 years of fire, medical and specialty experience dealing with rescue extrications and operations
FACT...People today are larger in the USA
FACT...What do you have to contribute as anything of substance other than an opinion based on a PR statement????

 

Originally Posted By mawnck

>>Thanks for trying to be clever.<<

Thanks for proving my point. There IS a person on this thread who has the first-hand inside knowledge of what's really going on in iasw.

You've been arguing with him.

 

Originally Posted By cinderella143also

""FACT...People who are bigger than the norm cause this to happen""

Really? Because I have seen boatloads of "normal weight" (if there is one) get stuck time and time again. So that wouldn't be a fact.....


""Thanks for proving my point. There IS a person on this thread who has the first-hand inside knowledge of what's really going on in iasw."" Really? Who has been in those meetings? And I am really suprised that Disney has given that person the go ahead to talk about details that counter act what they are saying to the media....
Intersting things to think about.

It shouldn't matter why they are being refurbished!!!!

The boats get stuck regardless of whether or not anyone is on them....

The ride is being refurbished

The ride is older

And it doesn't matter WHY it is being refurbished just that it is and will be closed for months...

 

Originally Posted By dlkozy

For a supposed fireman at DLR 550Deano, you are not making me comfortable about your so called knowledge of this ride.

 

Originally Posted By jonvn

"There IS a person on this thread who has the first-hand inside knowledge of what's really going on in iasw."


No, he doesn't. He takes people off the ride when it gets stuck. That doesn't mean he knows anything as to the reason.

If he knew what the boat's original weight limits were, and what it takes to get them stuck, and what was done during refurbishments to cause this to happen, then he would have information.

His comments indicate he really has no idea what's going on. It's as if he sees the sun rising and setting, and is saying the Sun revolves around the earth, because that's what he sees.

 

Originally Posted By Shiva

550Deano,

I have the highest respect for your profession but I do not feel that gives you any special insight into how the attraction operates. I'm not aware that you have any specialized training regarding the maintainance of this attraction nor the condition and clearances between the boats and the flume. I doubt that you have reviewed maintainance and repair reports nor that you have an engineering degree that specializes in ship building and buoyancy. Just because I know how to spoon peanut butter out of a jar does not mean I know how the farmer grew the peanuts, nor how the glass jar was made and how the peanut butter was processed.

I work in a fairly specialized line of work and have trained many people over the years, The hardest part of the training is to teach people to look beyond the obvious and to accurately find the root cause of a problem. You might be right but you might be wrong also. The only item of importance is that Disney has addressed the problem and will be taking steps to fix it.

 

Originally Posted By Zwitek

<<<<< What's the Bloody Mary one? I've never heard of it. <<<<<<

Jon, it's an old urban legend type of thing. You're supposed to get a group in a bathroom lit by candles, stare into the mirror and repeat "Bloody Mary" over and over, and if the mood is right, Satan's daughter who committed suicide in a very bloody fashion is supposed to materialize in the mirror.

It spooks people out etc.. guffaws all around that sort of teenaged hijinks.

 

Originally Posted By jonvn

"Satan's daughter who committed suicide in a very bloody fashion is supposed to materialize in the mirror. "


Oh, of course, how can I forget. I do this at least twice a week.

Thanks

 

Originally Posted By danyoung

This has been a fun and informative read. I have no knowledge whatsoever about the flume or the causes of the stoppages, other than what I've read. That said, here are my opinions -

A combination of weight in the boats and long-growing damage to the flumes and the boats have led to a majority of the stoppages of the boats. I think that this is incontrovertable. If the boats weighed less, then they wouldn't hang up. If the flume and the boats were in perfect shape, then the boats wouldn't hang up. It's the combination of the two that are causing the problem. Yes, the occasional boat will hang on its own. But the major cause of the hangups is overloaded boats, or at least boats loaded beyond their current capacity to carry the load, given the damage to the boats and the flume.

People weigh more today than they used to. Also incontrovertable.

Al reported on the refurb, reported that human weight was involved (which it is), and then speculated that it involved today's people weighing more than they used to. I don't think this can be confirmed. Yes, the heavier boats will tend to hang, as our fireman friend has noted. Would these same boats with that same load hang back in 1967? Who knows?

Disney's report completely discounts the subject of human weight, which simply doesn't make sense. They can say that the major problem is with the flume and the boats. But to say that weight isn't a factor is simply not true. It's understandable that they'd put this spin on the situation in an effort to not offend their guests. But simple logic says that weight in the boats is most definitely an issue.

And finally, it's proven once again that jon will vehemently deny anything Al says. And anyone who disagrees with jon is stupid, uninformed, and not in possession of the facts. Only he is capable of discerning what is true and what is company spin. He has this power - how many times does he need to display it before you all quit this silly arguing and simply accept what he says as fact? His abilities are incontrovertable.

 

Originally Posted By jonvn

"But the major cause of the hangups is overloaded boats"

No. The major cause of the boats getting stuck is that the flume and the boats are in bad shape. This is what Disney has said.

"Al reported on the refurb"

He gave an opinion based on his observations without knowing the facts behind the matter. That is not "reporting."

"Disney's report completely discounts the subject of human weight, which simply doesn't make sense. "

Actually, yes it does, because they are talking about the actual reasons this is happening.

"Would these same boats with that same load hang back in 1967? Who knows?"

Well, you see, these boats didn't just start sticking last Thursday all of a sudden. And aside from that, Bean (who seems to be believed when it's something certain people want to hear, and ignored otherwise) said the boats would have worked when the ride was new with the current capacity.

"it's proven once again that jon will vehemently deny anything Al says."

And once again you go OUT OF YOUR WAY to attack me, building up excuses to do it along the way.

I'm not vehmently denying anything. I'm stating that Disney categorically denied what he said was the truth, which is accurate.

"anyone who disagrees with jon is stupid, uninformed, and not in possession of the facts."

Basically, you're starting to fall into the weirdo Al zone, now. I never called anyone here stupid. But someone who simply evacuates people from the ride is not in posession of any facts on the matter other than people need to be evacuated.

"Only he is capable of discerning what is true and what is company spin"

I never said any such thing. Since you don't have facts, you've apparently decided to get into fabrication.

It is unfortunate that you've decided to behave in this manner. It is further unfortunate that you can't seem to separate cause and effect, but that seems to be an issue with a few.

Thankfully, most people seem to be able to understand what's going on here, so I'm not banging my head against the wall so severely this time.

 

Originally Posted By 550Deano

Like I stated in the other thread...I didn't mean to offend anyone...I was trying to state facts...I could have worded my statements in a better way...I am truly sorry if I hurt your feelings...

The true root of all the bantering back and forth was with Jon in regard to the PR statement....I will say that "YES", the ride is old and needs repair, but boats that are overloaded are getting stuck...This is because of weight...That is a FACT...The picture of the empty boat getting stuck wasn't due to weight, obviously...It was due to a corner where the flume transitions...A place where a repair is needed...So weight is a factor as well...Jon, you need to come to the realization that big companies can spin things...Wouldn't you agree???? Just answer that one question and I will be satisfied....I will leave it at that...

 

Originally Posted By danyoung

Deano, logic doesn't work with jon - he's right and we're wrong.

Completely predictable.

 

Originally Posted By 550Deano

Jon...I am having a hard time with you not accepting the fact that "eyes and ears on the ground" have a better understanding of what is "REALLY" going on...These people, including myself, are being discounted as not capable of using our brains and deducing cause and affect...Please give me and the other Cast Members a little more credit...

I know how you would react if the Government made such a statement...Believe the worker bees...The ones who do the job...

 

Originally Posted By jonvn

"but boats that are overloaded are getting stuck...This is because of weight...That is a FACT.."

The problem with that is there are boats getting stuck with no one on them, or "normally" weighted people as well.

As I have said many times now, the weight probably makes a bad situation worse, but is not the underlying cause.

"Jon, you need to come to the realization that big companies can spin things...Wouldn't you agree???? "

Of course they do. But this is not spin, they categorically DENIED it. That is a different thing than spin.

I am not denying your observations, but that there are underlying reasons for your observations to be happening.

It's not that people are too fat, now. The boats and flume are now just frail with age. That is triggering the basic problem of boats being stuck. When you overload a boat, it exasperates an already existing problem.

These overloaded boats would have worked just fine before, we are told. So that indicates its a problem with the system, and not the people riding.

That's what makes the most sense to me. I don't have any direct knowledge. But what you have to look at is what makes the most sense, and what I say above makes the most sense to me.

 

Originally Posted By Zwitek

<<< Oh, of course, how can I forget. I do this at least twice a week. >>>

Jon, you are a brave one. I never could do it.

 

Originally Posted By Schmitty Good Vibes

I think it is unfortunate that everyone has missed the actual cause that the boats in It’s a Small world are getting stuck.


Global warming.


We all know that the flumes carry water from all of the seven seas. As Al Gore has taught us, the oceans temperatures have increased by a little more than three degrees over the last decade, correlating with the time line for the boats getting stuck. This raise in temperature has changed the specific gravity of a cubic foot of water in the flumes from 8.33 lbs. to a little less than 7.98 lbs. The loss of this specific gravity means that they are unable to displace the same weight that they were able to a decade ago – therefore the boats are riding about three inches lower in the flumes than they did when the attraction opened.

This fact is made obvious when you see the tremendous loss of ice and snow in the Scandinavia/North Pole room of the ride.

 

Originally Posted By danyoung

>The problem with that is there are boats getting stuck with no one on them, or "normally" weighted people as well.<

I think it's been made very clear that the boats that get stuck with no people in them do so while at a turn. The most talked about point (by the mounties?) is totally a weight related situation.

>But this is not spin, they categorically DENIED it. That is a different thing than spin.<

Do you understand what spin is? This is just so clearly a case of corporate spin that I can't believe you have any trouble accepting it. And I don't blame Disney even a little bit for handling it this way. They would never diss their own customers, and that makes perfect sense. Categorically denying something is absolutely by definition a part of spin. American Heritage Dictionary says that spin is "to provide an interpretation of (a statement or event, for example), especially in a way meant to sway public opinion". Disney's public statement fits into this description perfectly.

 

Originally Posted By jonvn

"This is just so clearly a case of corporate spin that I can't believe you have any trouble accepting it."

I would have called it spin if they did not come straight out and say this was "Flat out wrong." If they said nothing, or used weasel words, which I'm pretty good at detecting, then I could agree it was spin.

As to your definition, the main word there is "interpretation." I would say that Disney's statement is not an interpretation, but a direct statement of fact.

Aside from that, what bean has said, what most people are saying, and what I'm saying too, simply makes the most sense. Without having specific facts of refurbishment history, it is hard to pin point exactly what happened. However, there did come a time when a boat first started to stick. We don't know those conditions, but as time has gone on, it has gotten worse. The ride likely was not built with such meager tolerances where a shift of weight like that would cause problems.

What we would have to do is correlate between repairs to the boats and the flume, which boats are getting stuck, where, and when this started to happen. Yes, the boats are getting stuck, and if you are heavier, that exasperates the problem, but is not the underlying cause.

The underlying cause would be the damage the ride has taken on since the early 1960s.