Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Of course these things can only be notice by someone who can actually be bothered to visit the park in the first place! >>> Malin, you've said this several times. Who exactly are you referring to?
Originally Posted By trekkeruss FWIW, I suspect that if DCA was built at TDR, and opened with characters in the mix, it would probably do much better than it does at DLR.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney Well I wasnt trying to 'pwn' anyone lol. Look, I understand what Malin is saying and I usually agree with 90% what he says. Want to make that clear . I think he just feels frustrated because he thinks we just 'ignore' the good parts of the parks and puts it down for the sake of it. That's not true, the problem for me is there is simply more bad then good, that the truth. I *know* I'm very vocal which is why I dont even make threads anymore lol, but I know HKDL is not a horrible park and its not the worst Disney park (but its not far behind ) but it is WITHOUT A DOUBT the worst MK park put to paper. I dont know how people can disagree with that. And I'm not talking about how it is against a badly mismanaged MK park in Florida. Its a big difference between a 30+ year old park that underneath is still a worthy MK park that has been run to the ground by inept managers to a park that was built with little creativity, a tiny attraction roster and a third of its potential from the start. Its not the same thing. I think HKDL has the potential to be a good park though, but it needs something thats bold, different and repeatable. I dont really want to just 'hang' in the park like the others and at the moment few things there are repeatable to me, but that said, the things that ARE there, I like generally....I just wouldnt fly half way around the world to see it thats all (and I never have. All the times I went before was a 2-3 hour plane trip and around $400 ticket. Big difference .) And again, as spokkerjones said, this stuff is the general perception of not just us jaded western Disney geek fans, but Chinese people in general. I decided to do my own market survey weeks ago after the breakdown of talks and since I live with 4 chinese guys. Out of my housemates and me, I'm the only one who actually been lol. They are from every part of the country, from Xian to Shanghai area to Hong Kong and when you ask them about the park they, besides one who just isnt into theme parks,the rest repeat the same thing: too small, not enough to do, too expensive, not 'real' Disneyland etc. Yeah, they never been either, but thats sort of the point. The park hasnt given them a reason to go the way most of them see it. Why spend good hard money on something EVERYONE is saying just isnt worth it? Funny thing though, whenever one of them found out I been, they light up and look so surprised lol. I think they think its cool and odd at the same time a westerner would even bother to go there, especially when I use to live next to the original growing up. Thats the power of Disney ;D.
Originally Posted By Anatole69 Lest anyone should forget, I posted the results of my poll of HK locals here: <a href="http://mb.laughingplace.com/MsgBoard-T-103672-P-5.asp" target="_blank">http://mb.laughingplace.com/Ms...-P-5.asp</a> They think the park sucks, but many of them have been there multiple times regardless. Imagine how much better the park would be doing if the locals acutally liked it. lol. - Anatole
Originally Posted By Malin *** The population of Japan is roughly 125 million people. That means that, with the numbers they've been generating, already a staggering ONE FIFTH of the population visits every single year (now even a bit more). *** If you put it in those words it would appear each Guest only visits the Resort once per year. The Resort relies on the same Guest visiting though out the year, and is a big factor behind the special events. So with that in mind there are still a massive percentive of the population who just don't bother going. I have heard that once people get married in Japan, there stop visiting the Resort. Not sure how true that is, but it certainly appears there is a gap in the market. And TDS is a good place for Guest to visit for a more mature Disney experience
Originally Posted By Malin *** Yeah I haven't been there, so I'm not speaking from my own experience, but the poll I took of HK residents about HK Disneyland, all most all of those who responded had negative things to say about the food *** I've just read back over that poll and while the talk is negative, its mostly down to the price and not the quality. Themepark food in general is overpriced anyway and should not be a reflection on what is served at Hong Kong Disneyland, which is a heck of a lot better than the crap served up at Ocean Park.
Originally Posted By Malin *** You dont have to only go to HKDL for that! Go to TDR like you said, get great customer service and something to do after 4 hours. *** But I like to be able to understand what the CastMember is saying to me without having to point. And true you could be spending about 4 hours in line for Pooh. *** Sorry, I rambled lol. But that's the TRUE probelem with this park, there isnt one thing unique about it!! *** I see nothing wrong with this providing its done right. Hong Kong is in a similar position to how TDL was when it started operation where all the attractions were clones. Over the years TDL has involved into something unique, and the early foundations are in place for Hong Kong Disneyland to do the same, I'm just happy to see the park despite its short comings still offer the Disney experience, as its hard to find it still at some of the other Resorts, namely WDW and DLRP at times. *** I don't want to have to say this but.....to quote the 'net from about eight years ago, Malin, "You got PWNED!!!!!!" *** Bob in a World of his own.
Originally Posted By Malin *** Malin, you've said this several times. Who exactly are you referring to? *** Its not exactly a reference to anyone in paticular, although my original qoute was aimed at Bob, but its more of a frustration I have in general of some people online, who will rip something apart without experiencing it. Take a look at that recent DCA, Monsters Inc vs TDL, Monsters Inc thread, most of the people who contributed to it havn't even stepped foot inside TDL, and were comparing it to the DCA version from a online video. *** Look, I understand what Malin is saying and I usually agree with 90% what he says. Want to make that clear . I think he just feels frustrated because he thinks we just 'ignore' the good parts of the parks and puts it down for the sake of it. *** I think thats a fair comment to make. Despite the difference of opinion shared by all, the talk about Hong Kong Disneyland has boosted the post counts up in this thread. People despite the criticism do hold a interest in the park, I only hope that 10 years down the line while we are still complaining out loud about WDW various problems, we can look at HKDL and talk highly of the place like we do in regards to the TDR on a daily basis.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney *** The population of Japan is roughly 125 million people. That means that, with the numbers they've been generating, already a staggering ONE FIFTH of the population visits every single year (now even a bit more). *** <<If you put it in those words it would appear each Guest only visits the Resort once per year. The Resort relies on the same Guest visiting though out the year, and is a big factor behind the special events. So with that in mind there are still a massive percentive of the population who just don't bother going.>> Sure, and? Again, I'm scratching my head. I dont get this at all dude. OLC aimed for 25 million, they GOT 25 million!! In your estimate, how many should be going to this park out of the entire country a year? 50 million? 75? I dont get your argument at all. Yes, they could get more, you can say that about every product on the planet, the point is they locked in to a certain segment and demographic and keep them coming back. And TDR is faaaar from the only theme park in the country, there are tons along with Universal, another big factor with also great quality, but considering that they are doing just as well as Universal even opened. Thats something I think. And I used HKDL and China as an example before, what's the difference? The USA has 300 million people in it. I'm guessing roughly 50 million visit both resorts every year. What's THEIR excuse? Its odd to me how the argument is to place these extra conditions on one resort (the ONLY one that reaches and surpasses its attendance goals nearly every year) that you dont place on the others. I seen this done before and its bizarre. If you can ask this about Japan, why not the U.S., Europe and DEFINITELY China? There are MANY people not going to Disney parks in these areas too, much more then Japan and they have the benefit of promoting the parks outside their borders unlike Japan.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney *** Look, I understand what Malin is saying and I usually agree with 90% what he says. Want to make that clear . I think he just feels frustrated because he thinks we just 'ignore' the good parts of the parks and puts it down for the sake of it. *** <<I think thats a fair comment to make. Despite the difference of opinion shared by all, the talk about Hong Kong Disneyland has boosted the post counts up in this thread. People despite the criticism do hold a interest in the park, I only hope that 10 years down the line while we are still complaining out loud about WDW various problems, we can look at HKDL and talk highly of the place like we do in regards to the TDR on a daily basis.>> Well of course we talk about it. Its the newest park opened. Sadly, it has the least news as well . We are getting more rumors about DL, a 50 year park with 60 attractions already then a 4 year old park with only 15 attractions, what does that tell you?? The only reason its getting this much discussion now is because the 10 of us that posts in the Asian boards are loving the tug of war and the crazy stand off with it right now. A month ago, it would be lucky it got a hit a day . And yes, we WANT it to get better, I dont think anyone is saying anything differently. But the great majority feels the parks simply SUCKS!!!! I know you and others dont but this thing is 4 years old this year and is about as DOA as DCA was. We simply want it to get better, but the little feud thats going on right now doesnt change the perception it wont change. With Disney now threatening to build some mega park with 8 rides in Shanghai now, who knows what will happen?? HKDL could be the first MK park to close its doors in a few years time unless they figure something out. Its NOT DLP that was popular from the get go, just cost waaay too much to build nor the crappy half day parks like DCA and WDSP that has busy full day parks next to it. Its a sole park with tax payers money thats funding it. Stays this way another 5 years, the residents will burn it down themselves . I'll say it again, I WANT the park to improve. I think we all do. Unlike DCA that had our cherished parking lot before lol, there was nothing there at HKDL. I would like it to stay a resort, just one people REALLY want to see on its own merits, not reasons like the staff is nice, its really clean and the landscaping is done beautifully. I'm sorry I can get the same qualities at any McDonalds around the world as well, doesnt mean I have to visit all of them. What you describe in HKDL is all no-brainers to us. Its a Disney park, this stuff SHOULD all be there regardless. I still want an experience I can get NOWHERE ELSE!! That's what brings me back to Disney, but HKDL its the experience I had at any Disney theme park, just half a days worth and nothing I havent done already since I was a teenager. Sorry, that's not a park I dream of seeing again.
Originally Posted By Malin *** OLC aimed for 25 million, they GOT 25 million!! In your estimate, how many should be going to this park out of the entire country a year? 50 million? 75? I dont get your argument at all. *** OLC have proven by adding a new parade and a few decorations it can grow attendance and doesn't have to stop at the 25 million mark. Recently we have heard from Lee and other sources that Tokyo Disneyland is reaching capacity almost everyday now, so the fact TDS is not, proves without a doubt an area where OLC have a chance to grow the business, why have one park at capacity, when you could have two. *** Yes, they could get more, you can say that about every product on the planet, the point is they locked in to a certain segment and demographic and keep them coming back. *** That key demographic is on the decline unfortunately for them, so do you continue to serve that market only or push your product to a new audience. *** If you can ask this about Japan, why not the U.S., Europe and DEFINITELY China? There are MANY people not going to Disney parks in these areas too, much more then Japan and they have the benefit of promoting the parks outside their borders unlike Japan. *** First Tokyo Disney Resort is not restricted to promoting in Japan only, and if you were to visit Taipei, you will see busses driving around the city featuring TDR 25th Anniversary advertising. So lets put behind this notion once and for all that OLC can't promote the parks outside of Japan, because thats not the case. And we could also argue why DLR, DLRP and HKDL while all being located in hugely populated areas fail to reach there full potential, but as this the the TDR section and we're are discussing TDR attendance, I've decided against going down this route, as to avoid going off topic, although I feel its way to late for that now!
Originally Posted By WorldDisney *** OLC aimed for 25 million, they GOT 25 million!! In your estimate, how many should be going to this park out of the entire country a year? 50 million? 75? I dont get your argument at all. *** <<OLC have proven by adding a new parade and a few decorations it can grow attendance and doesn't have to stop at the 25 million mark. Recently we have heard from Lee and other sources that Tokyo Disneyland is reaching capacity almost everyday now, so the fact TDS is not, proves without a doubt an area where OLC have a chance to grow the business, why have one park at capacity, when you could have two.>> Well I dont think they are stopping cold turkey. If they obviously got 28 million this year, maybe they can sustain that for awhile. And TDS gets 10-12 million a year, like I said waaaay earlier, now the busiest second gate around the world and its still a baby in Disney terms. Be patient, it will grow as they add more . Point is though OLC has a business model and its obviously working. If they want to try and get more I'm sure they will, especially as the country ages. Who knows, maybe even a third theme park. YES!!!! *** Yes, they could get more, you can say that about every product on the planet, the point is they locked in to a certain segment and demographic and keep them coming back. *** <<That key demographic is on the decline unfortunately for them, so do you continue to serve that market only or push your product to a new audience.>> You do both!! You keep your old ones happy as possible while reaching out to the new. The thing is the old are still the most reliable. Like any product, it will take awhile to get the same realiability in new fans, but I HIGHLY doubt TDR being a ghost town anytime soon. And Japan still has the option of promoting the park overseas for foreign tourists, building a third park outside of Tokyo for a completely different audience and etc. There are plenty of ideas. Disney in the USA stays relevant for doing the very same things...even to our disapproval at times . *** If you can ask this about Japan, why not the U.S., Europe and DEFINITELY China? There are MANY people not going to Disney parks in these areas too, much more then Japan and they have the benefit of promoting the parks outside their borders unlike Japan. *** <<First Tokyo Disney Resort is not restricted to promoting in Japan only, and if you were to visit Taipei, you will see busses driving around the city featuring TDR 25th Anniversary advertising. So lets put behind this notion once and for all that OLC can't promote the parks outside of Japan, because thats not the case.>> Well I never said they cant, I'm saying they simply DONT!!! And yes, they promote a little more NOW, but trust me, as late as 5 years ago when I was living in Asia and the same time HKDL was rolling out, there were commercials for HKDL, packages, previews of the park in front of Disney films, etc. There was a heavy roll out. When TDS opened, the ONLY country in Asia that I been to that even had something for it was ironically Hong Kong. It was a little booth in the Times Square mall passing out brochures and little flags for it. Thats all I can remember . But yes, like I said before, even in Korea a year ago, I was surprised just to see it included in the package deals for Tokyo....they never were before, so maybe they are changing their tune. Of course, that's only Asia. Ask yourself today how much promotion does it get in the U.S.? I was in California in June and I dont think I ever saw anything for it. I live in Sydney Australia now and I see special for the U.S. parks and even HKDL a few times. You will be veeery hard pressed to hear about the TOkyo parks here for some reason. I'm sure if you ask around you will get something, but its still not like the others, thats my point. <<And we could also argue why DLR, DLRP and HKDL while all being located in hugely populated areas fail to reach there full potential, but as this the the TDR section and we're are discussing TDR attendance, I've decided against going down this route, as to avoid going off topic, although I feel its way to late for that now!>> LOL, yeah, waaaay too late
Originally Posted By leemac <<But yes, like I said before, even in Korea a year ago, I was surprised just to see it included in the package deals for Tokyo....they never were before, so maybe they are changing their tune.>> My understanding is that there is virtually no advertising in South Korea for Japanese vacations. We are forever being told that there is still too much animosity between the two nations for any substantial ad campaign to work in Seoul. When I last visited with work a few months ago there was virtually no Japanese vacations on offer at travel agencies - although it was the height of winter. I know you have lived there, WD. Is that still a fair assessment? I know that the Japanese still have a certain hatred for the South Koreans (always described as like that between the British and the French to me) - I've lost count how many times I've seen suited Japanese businessmen deliberately cross the street to avoid a Korean tour group.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***So with that in mind there are still a massive percentive of the population who just don't bother going.*** Oh, brother. A "massive" percentage? Are you for real? What percent of the population of America goes to Disneyland and DisneyWorld combined? How about France? WorldDisney already made note of China, so I won't bother. But seriously, your argument seems a little silly to me. It's pretty obvious that the Tokyo Disney Resort is hugely popular, and it's even more impressive when you consider the VAST majority of visitors are Japanese, and also take into consideration the population (the WHOLE population, some of whom are infants, some who are 97 years old, some who live too far or have not enough money to visit, and yes even some who don't give a rat about the rat...it's still a HUGE chunk of the population who visit every year).
Originally Posted By Mr X Sorry...I didn't mean for post 95 to come out as snippy as it did. Anyway, I'll drop this cause it just goes round in circles after a point, but one thing I will say is that we should remember that 17-18 million number was also very extra-ordinary. It happened in Tokyo only once or twice, I believe, and I think in Florida once (during the 25th anniversary iirc). For a theme park to attract 10-12 million visitors a year is obviously very impressive (isn't that the average in Anaheim usually?). For two right at the same location to do so (or better), is impressive indeed. For there to be only two such places in the world, and considering that Florida relies heavily on international tourism to meet there numbers, means to me that the Tokyo Resort is very successful. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows, but that's how it appears to me anyway. And I'll say one more thing. I freakin hope that both parks DON'T end up with 18-20 million visitors a year...cause that would mean I would NEVER go back, and I live right down the street! (remember Yogi Berra? "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded!" lol)
Originally Posted By Mr X ***We are forever being told that there is still too much animosity between the two nations for any substantial ad campaign to work in Seoul. When I last visited with work a few months ago there was virtually no Japanese vacations on offer at travel agencies - although it was the height of winter*** That certainly doesn't work the other way around. Apparently Korea is a booming vacation destination for Japanese these days. I'll say this regarding animosity (and I'm sure WD will have more to say), my impression is that while some Japanese folks might sort of dislike Koreans in an abstract way (but often insist that they don't), some Koreans downright HATE the Japanese and I can understand why given the history (and the lack of any sort of remorse by the Japanese government, that's gotta hurt). Here's a funny (but scary) story. Two Japanese friends of mine went to Korea recently on business (separate friends, separate business trips), both of them went out with Japanese colleagues to some bar/grill for dinner in Seoul and to watch the Korea vs Japan baseball game. In both cases, when they cheered for Japan, they were immediately surrounded by pissed off Koreans. And in BOTH cases, they got so nervous by the potentially unpleasant scene that they left the place without finishing their meal! True story. (I told them it would be the same story in MY hometown if they wore New York Yankees gear and cheered for the pinstripes lol) Anyway, lotta bad blood there, that's for sure.
Originally Posted By MagicalNezumi There are TONS of vacation deals and packages from Japan to Korea. The "Korean Wave" or "Hanryu" (or "hallyu" in Korean) has been very strong in Japan for more than 5 years now. This is especially true with older Japanese woman who fill out concerts to watch K-Pop artists or stay glued to their TV sets watching Korean soaps operas and movies. Actors like Bae Yong Joon are practically gods here. The largest number of college students into Japan each year are Koreans and Chinese.
Originally Posted By Malin *** Well of course we talk about it. Its the newest park opened. Sadly, it has the least news as well . We are getting more rumors about DL, a 50 year park with 60 attractions already then a 4 year old park with only 15 attractions, what does that tell you?? *** It tells me that we have way to many Disneyland Annual Passholders on this board and not enough Hong Kong Disneyland AP's. *** But seriously, your argument seems a little silly to me. It's pretty obvious that the Tokyo Disney Resort is hugely popular, and it's even more impressive when you consider the VAST majority of visitors are Japanese, and also take into consideration the population *** I don't think I have said in any of the post that the Resort wasn't a suscess. But what I find rather silly is your argument that its impossible with apparently a 5th of the population already visiting that the Resort can't continue its growth. I also find it confusing why you feel like that despite OLC previously looking into building one of the proposed entertainment centre's in another city in Japan. While that paticular project got shelved, Disney see the potential and OLC with Disney's help, will continue to look at ways to continue to grow the business in Japan. And yes that will include finding ways to boost the attendance at the parks, as OLC is a public company and needs to deliver growth each year to keep shareholders happy. *** Anyway, I'll drop this cause it just goes round in circles after a point, but one thing I will say is that we should remember that 17-18 million number was also very extra-ordinary. *** I will join you on this as I think the discussion has run to its end. Its clear to me this is one of the issues we're not going to agree on, but it doesn't mean I havn't taken on board what you or WorldDisney have writen, I just don't see it from that point of view like you do with me, sorry. Oh one other thing... *** And I'll say one more thing. I freakin hope that both parks DON'T end up with 18-20 million visitors a year...cause that would mean I would NEVER go back, and I live right down the street! *** While the lines would be hell, think of the long term advantages if this would happen, to qoute WorldDisney from post 93, Who knows, maybe even a third theme park. YES!!!! Would be great, but I think TDS needs to stand its ground first and ease the preasure off TDL, as its a very concerning sight to see the park having to close its gates in whats considered the off season. Anyway lets move on to South Korea.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "I think TDS needs to stand its ground first and ease the preasure off TDL, as its a very concerning sight to see the park having to close its gates in whats considered the off season." Huh?
