Originally Posted By Sweeper <<Crapshoot>> I seem to remember seeing film footage where Walt said that entertainment was job 1 and education was good if it happened but it was not the goal. Paraphrased of course.
Originally Posted By jonvn When I go to DCA, I enjoy myself. I see others do the same. That's about it. DCA isn't flawed in so many ways. It has a few problems, and some things that didn't get built the way I would have built them. But they are working on it. Not in the manner I think they should, but they are working on it. There really isn't that much more to it then that. Three page long articles, or 500 line posts on a bulletin board aren't going to change the above simple facts. You either like it or not, for whatever reason you want to dredge up to justify what is basically just a subjective opinion. The only things that bug me is when people somehow think that they have some sort of basis beyond their own feelings as to why their opinion is right ("Walt would have hated it!"). Nobody's opinion is just right. I could sit here and counter all the baseless and mean spirited things said, but that's really proven to be pointless. The people who want to complain and who do little else will still complain, and it doesn't matter what is said or not said. In the meantime the people who simply like the park for what it is, and hope for an even better park in the future will do just that. They'll go, and enjoy it. Those who can't seem to understand that there is a lot there to enjoy are the ones losing out. But the fact that some of them are so insecure in their position of dislike that they have to go out of their way to trash anyone and their opinion who says they like it is pretty telling. Did Disney make mistakes? Yeah, sure. But in the final analysis, so what? It's not like what they are about to do to Pirates, where they plan to trash the thing for no good reason, other than rampaging ego. I half expect them to put Captain Hook in the new version. DCA is a new park, with a clean slate. It will become what it will. Hopefully it will be good. If it is, I'll go and enjoy it. If not, then I, and other people, will stay away. I don't own the place, I just want a park that I can have fun at. I don't expect much more than that, because more than that was never promised. Do I expect more from Disney? Not really. I expect them to deliver what they say they will deliver. If I like what they supply, I will buy. If not, I won't. I do not like everything they do just because it says Disney on it, neither do I dislike things they do because they don't meet up with some unattainable goal that only exists in my mind. It's pretty simple. You either like it or you don't, and that's up to everyone to decide for themselves. Arguing over it is not going to change anyone's mind. I like the place, and hope it gets even better in the future. Some dislike it and have let it go. Others seem to think it's a blot on their entire lives and has spiraled them into obsessive hatred. That's the most puzzling thing to me of all. I don't see the use in that attitude or behavior. I don't see the good in it, and I think it is worthwhile or healthy.
Originally Posted By crapshoot <<Walt may have said that he wanted to educate people through Disneyland, but it never materialised.>> See, you were getting an education at DL and you never knew it. The Jungle Cruise, Mine Train Through Nature's Wonderland, Main Street USA, Rivers of America and pretty much all of Tomorrowland. That doesn't mean that there is a test at the end of your day at DL. But Walt Disney was very adament that the experiences he provided would have entertainment value while being meaningful as well. Even POTC is great at doing both, we enjoy the antics of pirates while being immersed within a bygone era.
Originally Posted By kennect Sorry, I must have missed out on something around here...Where does this character come from that has written these three articles? Just curious....
Originally Posted By GCOND4 I agree with Jonvn. If you don't like the product don't buy the product. Personally when I first went to DCA on the annual passholder preview days I was not really impressed. When compared to Disneyland, the greatest "theme park" on the planet. But honestly after a few visits it started to grow on me and I really enjoy the park now. I just think of it as another land. There are great attractions, Screamin, Soarin, GRR and great atmosphere. Sure it needs some work but so does Disneyland as is evident by all of the attractions down for rehab right now. I am very much looking forward to The Bugs land which will give my 4 and 5 year olds some more attractions to go on there. But they also seem to enjoy the park. It is a fun atmosphere. Personally when they had the Elec. Parade and we would wait for the parade to start it was fun. They had the band playing, it was fun. It is a fun park. So, if you don't like it, don't go, and stop complaining. To all of those other websites out there I have one thing to say. If you could do a better job then do it. If Disney cared about what you said then they would hire you. They don't and should not care. They have done well for 46 1/2 years without your help and they will continue to do great things.
Originally Posted By lectrorail Good article. DCA is, despite her flaws, a pretty fun place (my opinion). I am certain time will bring improvement in the form of new attractions. However, I disagree with the part suggesting that Disney's America would've been a disaster. The park was going to celebrate America from its founding up to and perhaps beyond present day. It wasn't limited to the "colonial" period as WDW's Liberty Square is. TDS's American Waterfront circa 1900's would have fit, Paradise Pier was going to be there in the form of a State Fair, there was an industrial revolution themed thrill coaster and so on. Heck, think about it....ALL of California Adventure would fit inside of the "America" theme and that's just one state. Hawaii, the desert southwest, the rockies, the old south, New England, etc. etc. these new resorts and attractions would've been something else. I'm sorry this park didn't happen.
Originally Posted By jonvn I saw the plans for the park. It would have been a nightmare. Think things are politically correct now? Imagine trying to grapple with issues relating to history that have different interpretations based on what group you happen to ask. It's probably for the best that it never got built.
Originally Posted By Santa Monica i'm disappointed that he didn't explain why he was disappointed with soarin'. But I'm glad he had fun. I'm sorry, but I don't learn anything on Main Street, except learning how to add. The only thing I learn on Jungle Cruise is the art of bad jokes. I enjoyed the article. But then again, I would because I enjoy DCA. I disagree though that DCA isn't trying to be educational. There are many aspects where it tries to be an EPCOT. Why, they even have school groups come in with discounted tickets to learn about California.
Originally Posted By Spin and Marty DCA is fun, just ask my 11 and 7 year old boys. They feel like it's their own private park.
Originally Posted By nateinabox DCA is a fun park, but it was definately disappointing. If I didn't have a season pass, I would rarely visit. Why shouldn't we expect anything from Disney? Disney built the greatest parks in the world and now they give me a park where I can jump on the same rides as anywhere else. One thing that separates Disneyland is that it is unique. It is also very well designed and planned out. Disney did have enough resources to draw from to build DCA; they did not allocate. You can see where the well designed rides begin and end. People have a right to complain about DCA. You're on a purist Disney web site. Why shouldn't they complain? I like the park, but man, it is going to take a lot of work to fix it. I'm a total amusement park nut, so I'm willing to wait it out and see what they do. Maybe the question shouldn't be 'Did I have fun?', because that's unfair. You're at a theme park, what else are you there to do? Name a park that you went to and didn't have fun. 'Did you have $43 worth of fun?' Probably not.
Originally Posted By AgentLaRue "What, exactly, is $43 worth of fun?" Bad seats at an NBA game that may be over at half-time?
Originally Posted By Dave >>>Bad seats at an NBA game that may be over at half-time? <<< Worse yet....a Clipper's game
Originally Posted By arstogas >>>DCA is fun, just ask my 11 and 7 year old boys. They feel like it's their own private park.<<< I felt that way too, last time I was there... Course, I was the ONLY one there... (gosh, I'm in a mean mood...)
Originally Posted By jmbostick <<The freedom to bounce back and forth between the two is a luxury that Walt Disney World's guests can only dream about, where a decision to travel from the Magic Kingdom to Epcot can easily cost an hour in transportation time. Look at California Adventure not as another park on par with the Magic Kingdom, but view its themed lands as additional themed lands that complement the Magic Kingdom's (especially Paradise Pier's thrill rides), and it starts to make more sense.>> This is DCAs curse. It should have been a new land, not a new park. Think about it. The only people who can afford to "bounce" parks are APs. That's not a recipe for financial success. Remember the original business plan for DCA was that it would stand alone, even to the point of eschewing the Fab 5 merchandise? Remember the complete mess with the APs last January? The only reason we can "bounce" so freely is that TDA is making concessions so fast and furious it makes the ghost of Neville Chamberlain blush! Furthermore, I've read elsewhere that DCA's attendance figures are basically a draw FROM DLs, i.e., DL's attendance in 1999 & 2000 was about the same as the total of DL and DCA today. Now imagine if there was no DCA, with the hearty attendance in one park driving ticket sales and merchandise revenue, driving full employment of CMs due to the traffic and, most important, having a full budget instead of the one now split between one park that's hemorraging and another that's decaying (physically, not metaphorically, I'm talking dryrot). Disney Tom called it right. I distinctly remember my very first impressions of both DCA and Tokyo Dis Seas and they are a world apart. DCA was presented to the fans at one of the last AP parties (before Pressler got a bug in his rump over the Light Tragic debacle) and even then I remember boggling over how they could be presenting tortilla making and salsa demonstrations as worthy of a Disney Park. By comparison, I still have the Business Wire press release announcing the opening of Disney Seas. Just reading the pure specs--square footage, number of lands, ride names--was like reading the blueprint of a sonnet. Any long-time Disney fan develops a pit-of-the-stomach feel for when something Dis is right or wrong, and Disney Seas was very very right. And, surprise! Hotel Miracosta has been booked solid even in the middle of a national recession far worse than ours. Sorry, Mike, can't play the "economic downturn" card on that one. The fact is, DCA stank before last year's rainy season, it stank before the recession and it stank before 9/11. The reason Disney Seas shines is that Oriental Land Co unleashed WDI and told them to live up to Walt's standards. DCA doesn't because it was invented by suits who sent their accountantears to ride herd over Imagineering. The only thing that will save DCA is imagination and leadership, or maybe someone who has the b*lls to tell Eisner what's really going on, but don't hold your breath. I'm going to log off now and watch my censored DVD of "Disneyland USA" until I feel better! ;-)
Originally Posted By funnymanjake Aha........ahahaha. In the words of "Comic Book Guy" from "The Simpsons"... "I laugh at you." Comparing DCA to TDS is absolutely ludicrous! With it's completely original attractions, incredible themeing, and (from what I've heard) mind-boggling shows, TDS is head-and-shoulders above DCA. Just the fact that each "land" of DCA has more restaraunts and shops than attractions is a testament to what they had in mind when they built the place. Thier goal was to take a fun ride through your wallet, rather than you taking a fun ride through an innovative attraction. The flaws in DCA are so deep-rooted, it's hard to know what exactly to do to fix the place, but I do know that no amount of quick-fixes will ever qualify it to be in the same league as TDS. Something else I find amusing from this article, and I quote... "It'd be hard to argue against the fact that Paradise Pier is the most popular area of the park, and it can be enlarged quickly by the simple addition of more souped-up amusement park rides. I can see Disney fans cringing when I say that, but admit it: those rides are fun, just like they're fun when they're experienced at Magic Mountain or Knotts' Berry Farm." Exactly. They are fun, just like at Magic Mountain or Knotts' Berry Farm. But guess what? If I want fun, off-the-shelf, amusement park rides, I GO TO MAGIC MOUNTAIN OR KNOTTS' BERRY FARM. I don't need Disney giving me more of the same from lesser amusement parks, Disney is there to provide a higher-quality alternative, or at least they USED to. I'm sorry, but prettying up an off-the-shelf ride as "themeing" just shouldn't be able to cut it for Disney when you look at their past accomplishments. In any case, the money I would normally be spending at DCA if it were an up-to-par park will now be saved up for a trip to Tokyo and the new DisneySea park.
Originally Posted By Dlmusic <<Exactly. They are fun, just like at Magic Mountain or Knotts' Berry Farm. But guess what? If I want fun, off-the-shelf, amusement park rides, I GO TO MAGIC MOUNTAIN OR KNOTTS' BERRY FARM. I don't need Disney giving me more of the same from lesser amusement parks, Disney is there to provide a higher-quality alternative, or at least they USED to. I'm sorry, but prettying up an off-the-shelf ride as "themeing" just shouldn't be able to cut it for Disney when you look at their past accomplishments.>> I completely agree with you! If people like more of the same than they can have it, I perfer "theme parks" not "amusement parks." <<In any case, the money I would normally be spending at DCA if it were an up-to-par park will now be saved up for a trip to Tokyo and the new DisneySea park.>> I'm saving up right now. . .can't wait!! I've never been so excited in my life. ;-)
Originally Posted By aquamoptop I guess this all boils down to what you like. It appears to me that Greg is more into thrills and less into entertainment and education based attractions. He seems to be ok with the 'off-the-shelf' amusement park rides that Walt was so adamently against. I hate to say it but he is right about 1 thing the average 'general public Jo' as I call them would agree with Greg. But i still think that DCA falls short, even in the category of amusement. I mean really can you honestly say that any ride in DCA is nearly as stomach churning as any coaster at Knotts or MM. Face it a lot of us here are, as someone above referred, Disney purists and we look at the park as an abomination. Aside from the very ugly and creativity lacking architecture, I think the flaw of the park is they didnt choose a side for it. Disney theme park all the way OR Amusement Park all the way so it is a confusing jumble of Disney purists trying to go into the park and find ONE salvagable piece of Disney theming (found only in one place as far as i am concerned, Animation) and the amusement purists searching frantically for their next thrill (CA. Screaming, to me is the only thrill and even it falls to the weak side compared to Space Mountain ) I hope that greg is wrong I would hate to see all the parks fall wayside to this new goal of thrills and chills we have a million zillion amusement parks we can attend we dont need another one. This doesnt mean I dont want to see thrill rides at all i want a balance and I think DCA does have that. Unfortunatly, the attractions at DCA are either copys of WDW attractions or lackluster disaster like Limo. I do like Sourin i think it is the one ambitious attraction in DCA that holds up the entertain/educate value that DL has. And one thing about DL and the issue of educating. Everyone has to remember the time frame when a lot of these attractions came out. POTC, Jungle,mine train etc were all in a simpler time when themed attractions werent common and they did educate. I feel that they still do. Even if you dont realize it the minute you walk into DL you are learning (or i should say trying to be taught, knowing the average guest cant see "past the nose on their face") Anyway, I just have to say that my Fave parks are EPCOT andAK because I love learning new things, I am into thrills but the biggest thrill for me is seeing the way things work, progression and nature. Something is only boring to someone if it is something they are not interested in. I know DCA will flourish, they are already starting to fix the problems. Hopefully I will like it better when they do.
