Originally Posted By leobloom >> More attractions that are rides is better. Especially if you can make the new one a D, but why do we need to lose a C? Thats 3 more minutes out of the humidity or rain << Maybe the new ride will make the old one look...old? And obsolete? I'm just guessing, here. But if MK had kept SWSA and the Mine Train, people would have complained, "Two rides for the same movie? That's overkill! Why not build a ride for _(their favorite movie without a ride)_ instead?!" And furthermore, if the new ride is as good as it is supposed to be, as soon as it opened, fanbois would start saying, "Oh God, the new ride makes the old SWSA look like an outdated piece of garbage. How long until they can close down that embarrassment to Fantasyland?!" Usually I'm not for shuttering old attractions just for the sake of hollow progress (and I would trade M:S for Horizons, TT for WoM, SGE for Alien Encounter, etc). But the--admittedly minor--outcry for SWSA has me thinking some fanbois are simply contrarian by nature.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper ^^^Man, things are getting like a political rally in here. So many people jumping to each extreme. You say it like the MK isn't mainly rides. If anything, the new version of the FLE has LESS meet and greets. And I don't think anyone is saying they'd rather have the meet and greet. But, and you can deny it as much as you want, Meet and Greets are important to a Disney park. They need a permanent space.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<As for the coaster, yeah, it has a nice layout and looks to be about 3mins. It won't be intense, though. Perhaps a tad more intense than Barnstormer, but nowhere near Space Mtn.>> Sounds good.
Originally Posted By avimagine Well then you can at that time put in another dark ride with the track already in place and ready to go without worrying about moving the meet and greets. So I take it some people would rather spend their vacation just waiting in line for a costumed character, then say do things you can't do most places easily.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<So I take it some people would rather spend their vacation just waiting in line for a costumed character, then say do things you can't do most places easily.>> Ever been to WDW? Yea, there are a lot.
Originally Posted By David S >>>Must've been someone else who was claiming that SWSA does an exceptional job of telling the story of the movie.>>> I think it does as good a job as one could hope for with its short runtime. It's certainly MUCH more faithful to the story than that bizarre, alternate-universe version of the story that existed in the MK from 1971-94, which was ridiculously dominated by the witch, consisted primarily of cheap carny haunted house "scares", and ended with no indication that Snow White would live Happily Ever After or that Good would triumph over evil. The last scene was of the witch dropping a boulder on guests! With the Happily Ever After Scene in the current version, I get that nice Warm and Fuzzy, moving goosebump MAGICAL feeling that I am accustomed to and expect from Disney entertainment. This alone made the current version that was installed in 1994 a HUGE improvement over the original in my eyes and gives it HEAVY repeat value for me. No one ever said these rides have to literally re-hash EVERY plot point in the movie but something as basic and expected as a Happily Ever After ending is VERY important IMO, especially in the Happiest Place On Earth! I will miss this ride and it's lovely story, songs, and scenery IMMENSELY, and as far as I'm concerned, if the new coaster just has atmosphere scenes of the dwarfs' mine with FEW or NONE of the key plot scenes found in the dark ride, than IMO, the two would NOT be redundant and could co-exist. I also disagree with the criticism of the Pinocchio dark ride in Disneyland, which was, by the way, adapted for both Tokyo and Paris, but the Orlando Fantasyland (as per usual) got the shaft. It too touches me immensely, especially in it's lovely, charming final scene where Pinocchio returns home to live Happily Ever After with Gepetto, Jimminy Cricket, Figaro, and Cleo, and has become a Real Boy. This scene, like the whole ride, is scored PERFECTLY with music from the original film, (in this case, "Turn On the Old Music Box") which was adapted for the ride masterfully by John Debney. We obviously have different taste and opinions about what we look for in dark rides, so we should agree to disagree. But rest assured, the level of charm I feel from these rides, and the goosebumps I feel from being moved by the "Happily Ever After" endings, is very real for me. Having some semblance of a STORY creates EMPATHY for the characters, which you won't feel just from "atmosphere" alone. At least I don't. And I don't just want to look at pretty or interesting atmospheres, I want to FEEL something!
Originally Posted By David S >>> But the--admittedly minor--outcry for SWSA has me thinking some fanbois are simply contrarian by nature.>>> I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, that is way off. I am not trying to be a "contrarian". The honest truth is that I LOVE this ride (and the last time I ranked it was my 7th favorite in the MK), and hopefully my posts will reflect a genuine LOVE of the ride, not an attempt to be "contrarian". Just because someone's taste may go against the grain of the majority, doesn't make them a contrarian. Also, I forgot to mention in my earlier post when discussing DL's Pinocchio - It's my favorite of the 5 darkrides in Disneyland's Fantasyland based on the Animated Classics. Third or fourth favorite overall, behind only Small World and Splash Mountain! (and possibly Pooh)
Originally Posted By DlandDug David S, don't be alarmed when the Witches of Morva want to take you home! Well said. >>So I take it some people would rather spend their vacation just waiting in line for a costumed character, then say do things you can't do most places easily.<< As Hokie so succinctly put it, you bet. It's not my thing, either. But I know many who want that meeting with the characters more than almost anything else.
Originally Posted By avimagine Save yourself the money rent a few suits and dresses hire a highschool senior and you can have your personal meet and greet.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >> But the--admittedly minor--outcry for SWSA has me thinking some fanbois are simply contrarian by nature.<< I'm not so much ardently contrarian about taking out SWSA as I am definitely opposed to removing any attraction for no really compelling reason. I have always been in favor of newer, better things, even if we have to say farewell to old friends from time to time. But at WDW there seems to be a lawlessness in the way things are removed. Can anyone really say that Epcot is better without Horizons, World of Motion, Imagination, the original Living Seas and even Kitchen Kabaret? I'm not one to wallow in nostalgia. I just like to wallow in excellence...
Originally Posted By leobloom >> I think it does as good a job as one could hope for with its short runtime. It's certainly MUCH more faithful to the story than that bizarre, alternate-universe version of the story that existed in the MK from 1971-94, which was ridiculously dominated by the witch, consisted primarily of cheap carny haunted house "scares", and ended with no indication that Snow White would live Happily Ever After or that Good would triumph over evil. The last scene was of the witch dropping a boulder on guests! << Just my take, but...so what? Haunted Mansion ends with a ghost following you home. Mr. Toad's Wild Ride ended in hell. I guess it doesn't fit with this generation's version of Disney, but I think that's to the detriment of the park. >> With the Happily Ever After Scene in the current version, I get that nice Warm and Fuzzy, moving goosebump MAGICAL feeling that I am accustomed to and expect from Disney entertainment. This alone made the current version that was installed in 1994 a HUGE improvement over the original in my eyes and gives it HEAVY repeat value for me. << David, you just made Mickey and Bob Iger feel tingly all over. Way to go, my man! Usually it's only discounts and Living Characters that can elicit that kind of reaction!
Originally Posted By DlandDug Leo, with all due respect, that's a really unkind assessment of someone's personal opinion.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> I'm not so much ardently contrarian about taking out SWSA as I am definitely opposed to removing any attraction for no really compelling reason. I have always been in favor of newer, better things, even if we have to say farewell to old friends from time to time. But at WDW there seems to be a lawlessness in the way things are removed. Can anyone really say that Epcot is better without Horizons, World of Motion, Imagination, the original Living Seas and even Kitchen Kabaret? I'm not one to wallow in nostalgia. I just like to wallow in excellence... << And I can respect that feeling. But--for me--SWSA isn't on the same level as Horizons or WoM or Imag or Kitchen Kabaret. I think of SWSA as the Fantasyland equivalent of Food Rocks. Disposable and cheaply done. I'm assuming that the Mine Train can't be worse than what's there currently. But I would agree with you that WDW has had the tendency to introduce disappointing attractions over the last ten+ years. It's just in this case I'm not upset because I don't see much value in what the Mine Train is replacing.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> Leo, with all due respect, that's a really unkind assessment of someone's personal opinion. << Why? Because his getting high on pixie dust is what's au courant in the world of WDW? Really don't see how that's unkind. That's apparently what the company wants all of us to feel.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<With the Happily Ever After Scene in the current version, I get that nice Warm and Fuzzy, moving goosebump MAGICAL feeling that I am accustomed to and expect from Disney entertainment.>> Please tell me you're 5.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>Why?<< Because the rationale seems to be that anyone who really enjoys the stuff you and I don't must be some sort of hapless dope. That's all.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<Because the rationale seems to be that anyone who really enjoys the stuff you and I don't must be some sort of hapless dope. That's all.>> There's a difference between enjoying things(I happen to enjoy the vast majority of things at Disney) and getting "Warm and Fuzzy, moving goosebump MAGICAL feeling". That kind of talk is religious level weird, IMO.
Originally Posted By DlandDug For me it's not about whether you really, REALLY love SWSA. It's about the poor reasoning behind it's removal. (Since we're putting in a Mine Train, we'll take out a Dark Ride!) There's plenty of room in the MK's FL to add a Meet 'n Greet for those darling princesses. Let the MK's ride count go UP.
