Originally Posted By DlandDug >>And the addition it [IOA] did get is better than anything Disney has done in 15 years.<< Funny thing about that. Disney just announced an update to their multi-acre expansion of Fantasyland. Two new attractions, immersive environments, themed restaurants, homes for the characters, etc. etc. And people are complaining it's just not enough! Matter of opinion, certainly. Conversely, Uni builds a single attraction, rethemes two existing coasters, opens a single eatery and a couple of undersized shops and... for some folks it's the Second Coming of the Theme Park As We Know It. Interesting.* *see above
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>But you also get the guests who mean MK when they say "Disney" and don't think the other parks are. Or you get guests who think every damn thing in Orlando is Disney...<< Exactly. >>Harry Potter has probably done more to make Universal a distinctive entity in the tourists' minds than anything Universal has done before.<< Except that the "distinctive entity" isn't Universal. It's Harry Potter. I am sure Disney doesn't mind in the least that folks say "Disney" when they really mean the Magic Kingdom. Just as long as they say, "Disney."
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>... the books are over and the movies are almost there. 5 years from the end of the movies will be a better judge of if this holds up or not.<< I am confident that kids will be reading Harry Potter and viewing the streaming video of the film series for years and years. Chronicles of Narnia remains in print after 50 years.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 remaining in print and being wildly popular are extremely different things. I was an English major as an undergrad so I have appreciation for literature and want to see Potter around. Dr Zeuss has been around for 50 years and kids read it today, but not near as much as a generation ago. Lord of the Rings as I mentioned was THE book of the 20th century by many accounts- yet I promise you if 5% of the kids my kids ages (16-26) have read it I would be amazed. so again, I am pulling for Potter to stay relevant and as popular as can be if for no other reason than to get kids to read--but I fear that many people overestimate it's impact even 5 years after the movies end ( books being over) - it's a different world today than when the Wizard of Oz became what it is..
Originally Posted By ExpDave "The Be Our Guest Restaurant will feature a lavish dining experience in the elegant ballroom, gallery, and mysterious “West Wing” of the castle. With seating for 550, this magnificent facility will offer “great food fast” service by day and full table service dining in the evening." Is it just me or is something missing here from the earlier announcements? I thought there was to be a spectacular dinner SHOW as part of BOGR, now I don't see any mention of a show.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 I think so. It's one of those series that will be around pretty much forever, with generation after generation of kids reading it. It isn't some flash in the pan, it's a solid classic. It's been around nearly 20 years already ----- <<I do hope you're right - what concerns me is that reading in general just doesn't happen much for pleaseure for kids- Potter broke that mold. The fact on how long it's been around though was fueled by the story line thru 7 books and the movies.. the books are over and the movies are almost there. 5 years from the end of the movies will be a better judge of if this holds up or not. I'm hoping it does...but remain unconvinced in this attention span of a gnat world today>> Was about to head to bed when I made the mistake ;-) of looking at LP.com one last time and I REALLY want to get on this point (even though I think many people are missing the key points in the whole UNI vs. Mouse epic battle thru time) ... if Potter has a limited shelf-life (and I don;t for a second believe that), then let's look at Disney thru the same prism. Star Tours 2.0? Is Star Wars not tired? Did the last three films, which came out years ago now, not do more to destroy George Lucas's creative legacy than add to it? Star Wars will somehow always be relevant, right? But Potter won't? Or ... Let's just look at what Disney is building in the hastily added moniker of 'New Fantasyland' ... a mine train ride based on Snow White, a film that dates back to the 19fricken30s. Don't give me the 'it's a classic' line. How many kids (since we always seem to put the brats ahead of the rest of us) see that film when growing up these days? I'd venture a whole lot more kids are growing up on Nemo and Monsters and Cars and Ariel and Belle and Aladdin. Hell, I think many parents would buy Cinderella 3 for their kids before Snow White thinking the 'new one' is more relevant. You think more kids today grow up with Potter of Snow White? (and not the Disney Princess 'franchise' as this isn't about hawking crappy merchandise)
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Funny thing about that. Disney just announced an update to their multi-acre expansion of Fantasyland. Two new attractions, immersive environments, themed restaurants, homes for the characters, etc. etc. And people are complaining it's just not enough! Matter of opinion, certainly. Conversely, Uni builds a single attraction, rethemes two existing coasters, opens a single eatery and a couple of undersized shops and... for some folks it's the Second Coming of the Theme Park As We Know It.>> By the time FLE is fully open, the second phase of Potter will also be open. Uni is breaking ground on phase two sometime later this year. WDW is trying to play catch-up with Potter, pure and simple. As nice as FLE sounds, the damage has already been done,. WDW visitors are spending more time and more money on Uni property than ever before. There's just no way Disney is going to get that genie back into the bottle.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer ^ Unless they spend like crazy and try and shut out Potter... ...Which would be VERY hard to do.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 I think people are complaining because this expansion is not Disney at its best. Disney is capable of so much more and if they chose to, they could give Universal a good slap down. Instead Disney is not offering a single E-Ticket attraction. IF Disney had been investing in the MK (as well as the other parks) on an ongoing basis I would be much more excited about this expansion. Universal and Potter down the road should have never been an issue for Disney. Disney is Disney for gosh sake. They wrote the book on the theme park experience, but because the parks are now fully in the hands of accountants Disney is no longer the creative power house that it was. The fact that so many people are excited about this just goes to show how far Disney fallen.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I am going to weigh in on the Potter stuff for a minute and wager that it will have staying power...and Star Wars-type staying power at that. JK Rowling is still pretty young and she has treated these characters like family. I remember her saying once that when she killed off a charcter in the book she actually cried while writing that. That emotional tie is pretty tight. She certainly won't need to do it for the money but I think she will find a way to continue it because of the "relationship". And, there are a lot of directions she can go. I can certainly see an animated version of Potter much like has been done with the Clone Wars series. The other thing I will add is that even though it is a kid oriented franchise, I'm stunned by the number of adults who follow Potter with the same fervor as their kids do. I'd be surprised if this doesn't remain in the public consciousness for decades to come.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt " ... if Potter has a limited shelf-life (and I don;t for a second believe that), then let's look at Disney thru the same prism." When I said "shelf life" I was referring to the attraction at IOA, not the books or the films. WWOHP is the biggest baddest thing in Orlando at the moment and that will not always be the case.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>This kind of rivalry between Disney and local parks has been going on for decades… all the way back to Disneyland and Knott’s Berry Farm in the 60s. Outside the theme park community I would wager that most people don’t care all that much. Beyond discussion boards like this one, nobody is sitting around debating this stuff.<< Walt Disney and Walter Knott were friends. Cordial buddies. Both of them, and their wives often got together. There was not this "rivalry" going on ... to the best of knowledge. As I grew up near Knott's Berry Farm .. I've slowly, over the years, read up about both Walts. Now when Eisner started in 1984, I believe that's when the word "rivalry" came into the picture, at least where WDW was concerned. Keven Yee of Miceage had an interesting story on the direction Eisner took WDW property ... by being less revolutionary .. but more "reactionary" to Universal, and other competitors. An interesting read, I must say. Dates a few years ago. Interestingly, while being reactionary is a more "hollow" way of running "The Magical World of Disney" .... Perhaps at least being reactionary ... the New Fantasyland would have been completed today - Same time Uni's Potter additions opened. So .... Here's Disney. They're not quite revolutionary anymore .. not even reactionary. They are just plain late! Mermaid won't open for another year and a half, and the Mine Train ride a whopping 3 years? 2014? They're late. They're late! For a very important date!!
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<but more "reactionary" to Universal, and other competitors.>> Yup. MGM was made to compete with USO DAK was made to compete with BGT
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<I think people are complaining because this expansion is not Disney at its best. Disney is capable of so much more and if they chose to, they could give Universal a good slap down. Instead Disney is not offering a single E-Ticket attraction. IF Disney had been investing in the MK (as well as the other parks) on an ongoing basis I would be much more excited about this expansion.>> This is precisely how I feel as well. I believe the FLE is a good start, but Disney seems to be treating it as something major, like the announcement of DAK, which is definitely is not. There is no major E-Ticket, which is very disappointing. Mermaid comes close, but I think it's more of a D Plus or E-Ticket Lite. Plus, it's a clone of the one being built in DCA. Not a compelling reason to leave California and travel to WDW. The interactive circus sounds cool, but in reality, it's just a glorified electronic babysitter for Dumbo and not terribly impressive. I wonder how repeatable the various experiences will be after five or six rides? I could see this area eventually becoming a continuous collection of bored parents and kids just standing around and waiting for their turn on the spinner. The M&G in the old SWSA show space is a bit of a backpedal, but I do recognize the need to place the characters in their own environment to keep families from becoming unruly and allow all interested kids the chance to meet with the princesses. The Be Our Guest restaurant sounds wonderful, but I fear it will become yet another Royal Banquet Hall reservation nightmare. I'd love to dine inside Beast's ballroom and be entertained by the LCI figures like Lumiere. (Will there be a Cogsworth and Mrs Potts as well, I hope?) But given the way I'm forced to book my vacation time -- weeks in advance instead of months -- I have no hope of ever getting a platinum reservation like Be Our Guest. All of the DVC members and long-range vacation planners snap those up ahead of everyone else, so this will be yet another offering at WDW I'll be locked out of experiencing. The SW Mine Train sounds like fun, and might prove to be one of the more popular rides in the park. Sounds like a cross between BTMRR and a family coaster like Backlot Stunt Coaster at PKI and PKD. So, that's one original offering I'll get to experience in the expansion.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I think people are complaining because this expansion is not Disney at its best. Disney is capable of so much more and if they chose to, they could give Universal a good slap down. Instead Disney is not offering a single E-Ticket attraction. IF Disney had been investing in the MK (as well as the other parks) on an ongoing basis I would be much more excited about this expansion. Universal and Potter down the road should have never been an issue for Disney. Disney is Disney for gosh sake. They wrote the book on the theme park experience, but because the parks are now fully in the hands of accountants Disney is no longer the creative power house that it was. The fact that so many people are excited about this just goes to show how far Disney fallen. >> That pretty much says it all. I've been reading some of the fanboi drivel on another MAGICal site and it is vomit-inducing to listen to it (fanned a bit by my good pal Leewhatthehellhecallshimself as he hints at a possible future attraction that is far from a sure thing and has been purposely leaked to help build fanboi enthusiasm) ... excitement over nothing but some much needed TLC to the stalest MK of them, the highlight being a cloned D-Ticket from DCA. But again, fanbois today get excited over retro tees, 1972-era parades and construction walls. ~Caution is always wise when something sounds too good~
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Walt Disney and Walter Knott were friends. Cordial buddies." So? That doesn't diminish the fact that the two parks have been competitors for decades going back to when Walt Disney was personally overseeing DL's development. The point I'm trying to make is that all this talk about Disney vs Universal conveniently ignores the reality that for Universal to have any long term impact on WDW's operations in any meaningful way it has a hell of a lot of work to do.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "But again, fanbois today get excited over retro tees, 1972-era parades and construction walls." Is it not possible for there to be a spectrum of likes, preferences, and opinions, even among so-called fanbois? Can't people be genuinely excited about what's happening at the MK without being sarcastically labeled an apologist or a fanboi?
Originally Posted By Manfried You go, Dr. Hans. Your posts are a lot more intelligent than many of the "I want change but I hate when they change something" hypocrisy of so many.
Originally Posted By dennis-in-ct <<< Is it not possible for there to be a spectrum of likes, preferences, and opinions, even among so-called fanbois?>>> I'll be a fanboi "yellow belt" working my way up to a black belt Any money being spent is appreciated ... Most appreciated for me would be to let the talent and creative call the shots and let finance be the service function they are and figure out how the pay it. Don't stifle the talent and creative. The final product is very transparent to wether or not it was stifled by finance. Let "the talent" run it !!
Originally Posted By Manfried Finance always stifles creativity. The most talented creative types find ways to make it work in spite of the cost issues. In fact if the creatives know that they only have so much money ahead of time, they work really hard to put as much as they can in the guests' view.
