Originally Posted By tangaroa How much exactly would you be willing to pay for an E ticket? Indy? The New Space? How much would you want to pay for a 14 year old e-ticket that desperately needs an updated film? Ultimately if they switched to a system like this, they would want to make sure people were spending just as much as they were before - around 5 dollars. Since the average guest gets in about 10 to 15 attractions I would guess 5 dollars would be an average. Maybe 8 dollars per E ticket?
Originally Posted By Jim in Pasadena CA It would be like going to Las Vegas and riding that "New York New York" roller coaster. You look at the price on the sign, it reads: $8.00 and say 'fuhgetaboutit' At least I did.
Originally Posted By arstogas >>>>>>Sounds like Cookie Monster is simply what we call "spyware".<<< Exactly. I just called it "Cookie Monster" because of what it's planting. >>>Doesn't this just confirm Al's previous assertion that Disney is considering dismantling the AP program?<<< No, not really. It just means that an alternative plan has been proposed within the company. That doesn't mean that plans are afoot or under consideration for anything else. Proposals for all sorts of things are popping up at any given time, but it doesn't mean an existing program or policy is even under examination. I would not ride Space Mountain if it had a ticket price of $5. I can tell you right now, I'd probably find the sticker shock so distasteful in general, that I'd severely limit my visits to the park. I can afford it, but it's the same reason a lot of churches now are simply avoiding taking a public offering. They have a box in the back and you put your donation in there. It's the same reason that upscale stores don't allow their salespeople to accost you... you browse at your leisure and they have people to serve at your discretion. We have, as a culture, developed a desire to not be nickel-and-dimed. If this SmartCard thing were to happen, I fear a really negative backlash. It represents a reversion to the A-E system, but in an era where the prices have so inflated as to become ridiculous for a single ride. A BUCK for Dumbo? Really? I think this would be the last straw that breaks the back of whatever is remaining in the public's goodwill toward Disney's parks.
Originally Posted By Amazed Disney's basic problem is that the company has been taken over by the MBAs. Disney needs to be run by people who have vision and not computers. The Theme park business has less to do with projections and estimates and more to do with imagination and belief. As a CPA working with lots of different clients, it is easy to identify those clients who will be successful dealing with the public and those who will fail. It is obvious the Disney MBAs will continue to fail, until they get the vision and eliminate the drive to higher returns. Now on Topic .... There is no chance that the attractions can be priced individually in such a way that the average Disney visitor will not feal cheated in a smartcard system
Originally Posted By irishfan Im not too keen on this approach, yes it will iliminate the AP problem, but wont crowds increase throughout the park? I mean, if it only costs fifteen bucks to enter Disneyland, I could see huge surge in crowds. On a smaller scale, DisneyQuest tried this approach at WDW, when it first opened....on my second visit, it was changed to the single entrance fee.
Originally Posted By dlport >>What they need to do is lower the one day ticket price and raise the prices of the Annual Passes. << I don't disagree with this. An AP is an amazing value, and if management feels as though there is "freeloading", then I would rather management remedy the situation by adjusting that one variable, rather than dismantling the entire ticketing system. >>Doesn't this just confirm Al's previous assertion that Disney is considering dismantling the AP program?<< Why does everything have to be about Al being correct?
Originally Posted By dlport I agree with Arsto's comments in Post 23. The backlash of such a system would be immediate and strong. Who wants to think, "I am spending $5 for this 4 minute ride on Indy." The phrase Arsto used, "nickel and dime" is exactly what I was thinking when I read that story. Let's also not forget that unless the other area parks converted to a similar system, people would immediately recognize the differences. I believe it would drive people to Uni, KBF, and SFMM.
Originally Posted By Jim in Pasadena CA <I believe it would drive people to Uni, KBF, and SFMM.> But think how uncrowded Disneyland would be!
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt Perhaps but I there's a huge difference in offerings at Disneyland compared to Six Flags. How many "rides" does Universal have? Two? Three?
Originally Posted By tangaroa >Why does everything have to be about Al >being correct? Usually because he is. I doubt anyone at Disney would be looking into a new admission system if they didn't think the current one is flawed, and with what has been said by Al and others lately, I have a feeling more people are starting to realize that as being true.
Originally Posted By Mr Snappy Great....more MBA bashing I think this is more of a "boardroom" proposal and I dont get it (and I'm an MBA) Couple of thoughts: 1. How will this generate more money ??? If a family of 4 goes to the park, they will now pay aprox $50 X 4 or $200 for one days admission. If I have to buy smart cards, the 2 year-0ld gets admission only, the 5 year-old gets a full ticket, I get a full ticket, the wife gets 1/2 ticket. This is assuming you can buy different levels of smart cards like you could the old ticket books. In any case, we would just use up whatever smartcard had credits on it before we ever bought new credits on one card. 2. How would this work for the guest? Will there be a digital readout on the card? I would guess not, so how would you know how much you had left? They would have to station card readers every 5 feet in line so people could make sure they had enough credits left to ride. 3. How does this generate money to keep an attraction going? If all the customers are spending their credits on "e" ticket rides, and racking up the money on them, how do they justify parking? gardening? sanitation? In other words, they would still have to allocate funds back to the park, so what's the point? And if you want to know if a ride is popular, check the turnstyle numbers...that's all the proof you need. 3. I do not know the scope of the AP problem, I never really could figure out who was a normal customer and who was a AP holder, but the answer has been stated here many times....RAISE THE PRICE OF THE ANNUAL PASSPORT, and I'm not talking a couple of bucks, tripple the price. 4. I would bet they would use a "credit" system instead of money. You would get something like 10,000 credits and "e" ticket rides would cost 2,000 credits. They would not make the credit system look anything like the amount you paid...they would not want you to figure out how much that ride you just went on costs, they just want you to ride and refill. At the end of the day, I don't like it. Not because it would be a pain in the rear for everyone, but because I don't buy that it will generate any income and it definately will not have an impact on any new ride developement. Even if they install this system and find out that all of their dreams come in regards to ride pay-back, the execs would still have to OK huge capital expenditures. Regardless of the parks success, it still comes down to the balance sheet and it always will.
Originally Posted By Jim in Pasadena CA Excellent points, Mr. Snappy -- you points are well taken. And no disrespect meant regarding MBAs. My comment about "The MBAing of Disney Theme Parks" is based on the pendulum having swung [in my opinion] too far toward making money. Yes, the park needs to make money, but sheesh, it seems even the restrooms need to be a 'profit center.'
Originally Posted By merlinjones With all disrespect meant to MBAs... This fabulous facilitator's corporate Trial Balloon only floats us the propect of maximizing Disneyland's profit per square foot, tyring to justify every inch. Anyone familiar with retailing can tell you that before long this type of system results in the same "product" everywhere you go. Only the "most popular" things get "shelf space" and the rest must go away... permanently... to maximize return. This will make DL a clone-like sea of mediocre corporate low cost/high profit attraction items - - just like the stock at the Disney Store. Once you figure out what people will pay for no matter what, you make it cheaper and cheaper and make more and more of them. Are the popular things at Disney Store better made or unique? Well, you get the drift. This is simply more detrimental, non-intuitive number crunching and consulting that will surely result in the death of many unique DL artful odities. Imagineering has developed some shocking ways to try to pick people's pockets in recent years (many of which have yet to see the light of day). They are now a systems/marketing/financial research and development arm instead of a creative design and content unit. Better profits through technology. Miracles from Moneymakers. The Imagineering has gone to the MBA's and their fantasies, not ours. They can swipe that SmartCard where it belongs.
Originally Posted By arstogas >>>I doubt anyone at Disney would be looking into a new admission system if they didn't think the current one is flawed, <<< They have whole teams of people who are paid to do nothing else but dream up new ways of doing things, new ways of making profits. That doesn't mean a dictum exists to fulfill a particular prescription or problem, whether Al perceives there to be one or not. Again, am I the only one who took Algebra in high school? One thing doesn't equal the other here. There's a proposal - probably one of many. I bet there are OTHER proposals that exist to BROADEN the Annual Passholder plan. Does that mean Al is wrong?
Originally Posted By dlport >>Usually because he is.<< I give you points for consistency and not backing down from your dedication. And no, that was not sarcasm. Let's just say I disagree with you, and I will leave it at that. >>Perhaps but I there's a huge difference in offerings at Disneyland compared to Six Flags. How many "rides" does Universal have? Two? Three?<< I guess that is my very concern. Do people begin to think, "Well, there is less to do, but at least I don't have to fool with that "ticket" thing." I am not saying it would definitely happen, but it would certainly be more convenient to go to a place without such a system. Even if that place was not quite the same quality.
Originally Posted By arstogas Some good points in that post, Mr. Snappy. I would point to the example listed earlier - DisneyQuest... when they DID have a credit system. And that didn't last too long. I will admit there's a very big difference in the perception of quality offerings at a DisneyQuest and at a full-fledged Disney Park. But if they don't look long and hard at this case study, they're going to get bitten in the rumpus.
Originally Posted By Mr Snappy Somebody said it perfectly earlier....They will keep cutting quality and trimming expenses until somebody notices....that means until people stop flooding in the main gates. They better watch out, they could potentially mess with that warm-fuzzy place in the back of your mind that makes a $3,000 trip from Kansas to go to an amusement park seem like a smart move. I still have not seen a problem with what they are doing, but I could see it in the future if they dont have quality people making the decisions.
Originally Posted By slaakker Another difference was that the ticket book encouraged people to ride other attractions. If it was money based I would guess that most people just wouldn't be willing to spend thier money or credits to an attraction like Tarzan Treehouse. The credit or money would probably go to the bigger attractions. I guess it would also depend on the pricing for the "Lesser" rides. But again, the ticket books sold tickets for all level of attractions and you couln't add two C tickets and get an E. My vote is no card, thanks anyways.
Originally Posted By jimminy44 First of all, no MBA here and wasn't great at math either. But I still have the impression that we are crossing back into old territory here. What I mean by that is, we already had "paper" ticket-books which gave a finite amount of attractions for the price from which, at the time, a portion was allocated for park maintenance, etc. People would take the unused "paper" tickets home to use them on a later date. But remember, they still had General Admission then. Would they go back to that now? Doubtful but possible. Remember when grandparents used to go to Disneyland on a General Admission ticket and hardly go on any rides? Yes, they would spend money on food (and would probably complain the loudest- maybe they still do don't they?) So didn't the Disney bean-counters already evaluate a "paper" kind of credit system and come to the conclusion that they were not(sorry if I misstep here) getting all the money they could from persons entering the gates? And didn't they, after evaluating the situation already come to the conclusion that a one-price general admission that gave unlimited access to the rides was the best way to get the most money? Now, let me get this straight, are we just reinventing the wheel, electronically? Or are they going to do the "electronic ticket books" thing a little differently? I mean of course they must be changing something about it. Otherwise, they are de-simplifying the whole process for no reason. And not only that, they would be going back to a "credit" system--just changing from the old paper credit system(ticket books) to the new "electronic" credit system. So what would they change? They HAVE to be changing something about the credit system or they would be going back to a system that they already decided was not as profitable as the current one-price general admission. Would they disallow the rollover or take-home of unused credits on your electronic ticket books? If they do this, local people will, if bringing relatives to the park, opt for the most inexpensive "electronic" ticket book option rather than the more expensive options and, as stated earlier, use the credits from someone else's card/ticket. There will have to be options right? Otherwise, the whole thing becomes a ridiculous overcomplication of the single-price admission. Personally, this will make me come to the park less and opt for the cheapest "credit book" when I do come to the park. Which I think will cause Disney to lose money on this endeavor. As far as the discussions about which rides would or should be kept, I'll stay out of that. But I would like to see all of them kept maintained. Didn't the cost of the original ticket books include in them the costs of park maintenance? One more thing, wouldn't all of the electronic stuff be expensive to maintain? What about all of those card swipe stations, issuance stations, etc? IMHO
Originally Posted By merlinjones The ticket book system orchestrated your day to guarantee that you had to see some of things Walt wanted you to see as well as the most popular E attractions. Rides were distributed throughout the A-D lineup (plus "free" tickets) to guarantee that those small but intersting and unusual things paid for themselves, becuase you had to spend those tickets on something at that price level and the budget was allocated accordingly. This total value card concept makes you put your money where your mouth is and leaves the little cool stuff to fend for itself against the moneyhog E tickets. How will King Arthur Carousel survive against Splash Mountain when push comes to shove? People will be scared to use their "money" and argue about what "value" things are before going on. Families will fight aganist one another demographically to "spend" their card properly. What angst and division for this techological puppet show of greed! They just want to get rid of the Tiki Room and build more carny crud. We ain't buyin' it anymore than late opens, early closes. And you'll get great press, just like that. Quit scheming for our gold fillings, Lucy and Ethel Imagineer and earn your dollars the hard way with some cool stuff that we actually want to ride. Can you still do that?
