Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "But there are ways to do that other than FastPass - like adding additional rides to the park without raising the number of people allowed in at one time. More rides = more people spread around the park = shorter waits." New attractions and shows are being added all the time. Maybe what they're adding doesn't suit your tastes or mine, but you can't deny that Disney is adding things to their parks beyond new interactive queues and Fastpass locations. "Actually it is a pretty good argument. If you don't like to stand in lines then you probably either shouldn't go or plan visits during the slowest times." I avoid Disney parks during busy seasons, however some attractions may have long waits no matter when you go. That's fine, and I simply decide to skip them if I don't feel like waiting, which is pretty much most of the time. "Standing on line comes with the territory." Well it used to. Thanks to technology this problem can be reduced. I think Disney is wise to jump ahead of the game as it increases enjoyment enormously, especially if your not a frequent visitor like me. "Lines haven't changed over the years. Just peoples lack of patience." I'm pushing 50 years old, and I've been visiting Disney parks for a long, long time. I can tell you that guests have always lacked patience when waiting in line at the parks, and I can think of specific instances at DL, WDW, and DLP where I witnessed it firsthand. The only exception to this might be TDL where it seems the Japanese will patiently wait a full day just to ride one ride. lol
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<At least from my quick look it is a wash. Or did I miss something?>> There may be as many rides, but ride availability is much reduced due to increased attendance and shorter hours.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 Again I think the hours thing is a wash. When I worked in the MK in the 80's we always looked forward to Sept/Oct when the park closed at 6 pm. That was pretty well nightly thru those 2 months. Looking at the MK hours this week the earliest the park closes is 7 pm (because of Mickey's Halloween) but the other nights the park closes at 11 pm.
Originally Posted By leemac <<On average, Disney theme park guests today ride fewer attractions over the course of one day than they did several decades ago.>> Do you know the incredible fact about all this? The number of attractions experienced by the average guest has remained virtually constant over the past 30 years. It has always perplexed the hell out of me how that was possible but I suspect it is a combination of things: 1) Shorter length of newer attractions is offset by the longer standby lines and FP rules. Those lengthy Future World rides and all of the classics like HM, POTC and iasw have few equals in attractions built in this last generation. 2) Longer lines for F&B. 3) Longer wait time for parades. Etc. So the magic number is still being hit despite all of the changes in guest dynamics over the years - much of it being driven by FP. The sole reason that MK got FLE is due to the fact that the park slipped below the magic number - it became undercapacity which drove up wait times which drove down guest satisfaction scores. Many of the E-Ticket attractions developed in the '90s had very detailed lines (FP launched in '99?) - think Indy in DL, Test Track in Epcot, Tower of Terror in D-MGM - those attractions all debut to massive lines (those evil 4 hour waits for Indy in the summer of '95) but the queue experience became part of the overall attraction (arguably that headache-inducing clanging in TT was unwelcome!) and guests seemed to just take it on the chin. TLM aside - too many attractions have opened that had basic lines (I'm looking at you, Soarin' in Epcot) that just isn't acceptable for WDP&R or a long wait time.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I find it interesting that FP was supposed to alleviate the long line issues>> I've always been told that FP was designed to modify guest behavior - it had little to do with reducing wait times for the average guest. It was always seen as a pre-cursor for what is about to come next - NGE.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>I've always been told that FP was designed to modify guest behavior...<< The DIsney Conspiracy Theorists all swear that the sole purpose of FastPass was to make it possible for people who would be waiting in lines to get into the parks and spend more money on food and merchandise.
Originally Posted By leemac <<The DIsney Conspiracy Theorists all swear that the sole purpose of FastPass was to make it possible for people who would be waiting in lines to get into the parks and spend more money on food and merchandise.>> I'd forgotten about that one! How on earth can you convince someone to spend more just because they aren't in line? You either need something to eat or drink or don't - you'll either make time for shopping or won't. That isn't the behavior-modification that I was suggesting. In theory FP helps to regulate guestflow throughout the day for major attractions - it does manage to achieve this to some degree. That first sprint after rope-drop becomes less specific towards a single attraction.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "TLM aside - too many attractions have opened that had basic lines (I'm looking at you, Soarin' in Epcot) that just isn't acceptable for WDP&R or a long wait time." I've been around here long enough to remember when people were expressing concern about the possibility of Disney doing away with elaborate queues because of FP and Disney's low budget mindset at the time. lol... now folks are complaining about the queues being too detailed.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA Sometimes these Imagineers put things together as if there is not a 50+ year knowledge base. Indiana Jones queue at Disneyland -- makes sense. It's a long line, it moves slowish, so make the queue detailed and fun to look at. To me, it's one of the best. Little Mermaid queue at Magic Kingdom -- doesn't make sense. A very fast moving line with detailed 'games' that people want to finish? Weird.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Indiana Jones queue at Disneyland -- makes sense. It's a long line, it moves slowish, so make the queue detailed and fun to look at. To me, it's one of the best.>> Which probably wouldn't exist if it didn't need to get you out to the show building. It is a highly detailed line but it doesn't really set up the story per se - the fact you are supposed to be in 1935 and that there are clues scattered throughout the queue that explain the story. It is a little too convoluted for a backstory. Nitpicking I know but it would have been great if they found a way to properly reinforce the time period of riding guests. <<Little Mermaid queue at Magic Kingdom -- doesn't make sense. >> It is a little odd to say the least - again it doesn't particularly assist in setting the story up (especially as the attraction is from a neutral bystander POV - you are just watching vignettes). The queue in DCA actually makes more sense - you are just at a aquarium!
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <It is a highly detailed line but it doesn't really set up the story per se - > That may be true (I had forgotten about the clues along the way), but I would argue that the queue does a very good job of setting up the time frame and the certainly the overall mood of what we're doing. Compare 'Indiana Jones' queue to the very peculiar queue for "Pirates of the Caribbean' at Disneyland. Talk about a weird queue! : )
Originally Posted By leemac <<That may be true (I had forgotten about the clues along the way), but I would argue that the queue does a very good job of setting up the time frame and the certainly the overall mood of what we're doing.>> It does a better job with the overall mood than time period IMHO. It is a stunning queue from a placemaking POV that is for sure. That entire queue structure had a bigger budget than any single attraction in DCA - fact.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt If this newfangled LMM queue was at TDS the fans would be peeing their pants. Put it in the MK and people question it.
Originally Posted By leemac <<If this newfangled LMM queue was at TDS the fans would be peeing their pants. >> Nope - cos Mermaid Lagoon is waaaaayyyyy better! It actually takes you "under the sea" with something other than a wavy light. )))))))))
Originally Posted By phruby Since Indy now has Fastpass, the beautiful queue isn't even used anymore. Once released from Fastpass, people run thru that queue. Not sure why the fastpass guard is outside the main queue since anyone can line jump via the parallel exit queue. Putting Fastpass on a high capacity omnimover is stupid and a waste of queue space. The only reason to have it for the Mansion is because of the stretching room bottleneck.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I LOVE the Indy queue at DL. Frankly, I don't really remember the ride at all. I just remember how great the queue was and wishing the queue for the Dinosaur clone in WDW was 10% as good!
Originally Posted By DlandDug I am not sure that the Little Mermaid attraction needs any set up. It seems to me that everyone approaches the attraction with a pretty clear notion of what it is about. >>The queue in DCA actually makes more sense...<< I agree that the DCA queue and show building make sense, particularly in the very specific setting of Paradise Pier. A sea coast, castle and series of caves would be completely incongruous-- unless they were carefully representational (ie: like set pieces). The Little Mermaid exterior design at DCA had to perform several tasks, not the least of which conceal a really big show building in a very prominent location. It also was an opportunity to better reinforce the "new" theme (which wasn't all that new, but poorly supported originally) of a 1920s era pleasure pier. The "meaning" of the fanciful, eclectic architecture is really a little too esoteric for most guests, but that doesn't matter, as the whole thing is not as jarring (or downright unpleasant) as the previous iteration's reliance on stucco boxes with colorful signs. If I had any criticism, it is that the scale of the structure is a bit overwhelming. I would have preferred some breakaway elements, especially with other uses (ie: Meet 'n Greet or a shop). But, of course, the realities of space, budget and schedule all come into play when these kind of decisions are being made.
Originally Posted By DlandDug Yes, I agree that the Indy queue is truly amazing. As leemac pointed out, this is in no small part due to the fact that guests had to be moved across a LOT of territory to get to the show building. As much as we keep thinking of this as a relatively recent phenomenon, bear in mind that Big Thunder (1979 in DL and 1980 in the MK) had a pretty detailed queue. Even back then there was a recognition that guests were spending far more time in line than they were on the attractions. Simple switchbacks (Haunted Mansion, anyone?) just wouldn't do. Which makes the presence of exactly that throughout DCA 1.0 (California Screamin', I'm looking at you) especially troubling...
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Nope - cos Mermaid Lagoon is waaaaayyyyy better! It actually takes you "under the sea" with something other than a wavy light." LOL!
Originally Posted By leemac <<I LOVE the Indy queue at DL. >> The stupid thing was that DL discontinued the decoders so early into the attraction's run. The code isn't particularly challenging - it is just a simple character substitution code but giving guests the encoders helped to bring home the story more. It is pointless to go to all that effort and then not see it through for a simple expense.
