Originally Posted By JimG Fine report, Greg. All positives and negatives considered, it still makes one wonder what "Disney's California Adventure" (DCA) could have been if it had been given an appropriate budget. Frankly, I remain a very strong supporter of the (original) WestCot concept and dearly wish it had been effectuated instead of DCA. Oh, well.
Originally Posted By aracuanbird Great article Greg! A relief from the mindless pro-Disneysea propaganda that these boards typically ooze with.
Originally Posted By Faith Well given that I have had a chance to see Blast in a number of cities, it's not exactly something that is going to lure me to DCA. (though I *am* curious to check it out) I mean, it's not exactly unique nor is it something created by Disney. I really think that live entertainment enhances the magical feel at Disney parks. I'm sure that everyone's comparisons of the different parks around the world reflect what they are personally looking for in a theme park experience. And where have I been that I've been missing the mindless pro-Disneysea propaganda? I don't understand, in general, how it's often labelled as "mindless" when people love something... is it somehow more intelligent to dislike things? If so, I'd rather be mindless and happy. And a safe and happy 4th of July to all my fellow US LP'ers!
Originally Posted By gmaletic Thanks to everyone for providing feedback. Just so I can clarify my stance on skipping the live shows at DisneySea: I really am not a fan. Believe me, you don't want my impressions of them. I don't mean to say that I think they're of low quality; rather, Disney shows seem to be of the highest quality. They just don't do anything for me. One notable exception: the Tokyo Disneyland version of the Main Street Electrical Parade (can't remember what it's called) was spectacular. Really beautiful; much better than Disneyland's. To give an example, even the fireworks shows leave me a little cold, especially Fantasmic. (I think I may be the only person on LaughingPlace with that opinion!) I like fireworks, but I'm not a fan of the storyline and music that typically go along with them. Besides the fact that I don't typically enjoy live entertainment, DisneySea's shows are in Japanese, which would really present a challenge for me. On top of that, the one sort-of-live show I saw, "Magic Lamp Theater", was pretty bad (and in Japanese, so it was confusing) so it didn't encourage me to seek out the rest of what DisneySea had to offer. For those of you who have seen the shows: I encourage you to write a review of the DisneySea live entertainment; it sounds like there's quite an audience of people here on LaughingPlace that would enjoy it!
Originally Posted By dennis-in-ct <<<A relief from the mindless pro-Disneysea propaganda that these boards typically ooze with>>>> hmmmm ... oh my
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<where have I been that I've been missing the mindless pro-Disneysea propaganda? I don't understand, in general, how it's often labelled as "mindless" when people love something... is it somehow more intelligent to dislike things?>> Sure there's a LOT of fanaticism among us that love the TDR, perhaps enough so that it may sound like we are somehow not impartial. I disagree with that assessment of course...it's natural to label someone "mindless" if their viewpoint doesn't match your own. The thing is, what most folks write here is NOT mindless. *Everyone* has written honest assessments of the resorts attractions, shops, restaurants, hotels, etc...honest because they have expressed how these things made them feel. If you don't agree, fine, but to label it as "propaganda" is frankly, insulting. Especially since, what the heck do any of us have to gain by saying that we love it? Nothing really, other than spreading the good word...we want people to go and enjoy TDL and TDSea because we believe they are great Disney experiences. That's what we do with friends...we share things we love.
Originally Posted By OrlandoBoi acuna matata bird-I have said repeatedly here that there were some things at TDS that I quite frankly did not care for. Like the reviewer of the article, 20K was the first thing we rode at TDS and it TOO left us REALLY quite cold. The sixty minute wait in drizzling rain, side window views(of which you must hunch down uncomfortably to see), Japanese narration, murky set pieces and sudden ending left me decidedly "wet" on 20K. Stormrider is an attraction I am on record several times here as not liking quite forcefully. Its plot is simply uninvolving and it is merely a mixture of Star Tours(motion Simulator)and HISTA(theater motion base experience)with a spritz of water in your face. I ONLY got to see that because we got front of line tickets after waiting ninety minutes for JttCotE and it going 101. If I had waited the posted ninety minutes to two hours for Stormrider I would have been QUITE pissed. It simply is NOT worth it and I am only happy that future disappointed riders will AT LEAST be able to make use of the new "Fasta-Passa"(hehehe)facility. And sorry WeirdOne-I also thought DisneySea Symphony was a complete waste of time and not worthy of being shown in a park as grand as TDS. It is just a jumbled mess and at THAT is WAY too short. My account of walking out on the show and then having to race ahead of the stampeding Japanese guests "Simba and the wildebeest" style is on record. What is good however about TDS is BEAUTIFUL. Like the reviewer, I LOVED just BEING on the Columbia. Yes it is extravagant. So what? So was the entire price of my vacation. I EARNED the right to stand on the bow of that boat and do my Jack Dawson/James Cameron(hehehe), "I'M THE KING OF THE WORLD!!!" As to the reviewer's comment about other TDS' shows being in Japanese, he is incorrect. From memory Mystic Rhythms had VERY little narration and was more of a performance art piece. It resembled the best of Cirque de Soleil except with the most beautiful set I have EVER seen in a Disney show. The Little Mermaid show ws in both Japanese AND English. What was NOT understandable to me was completely understood ANYWAY because of my complete knowledge of the film and its story. The show is a MUST for any Disney fan and indeed, any fan of theater. Done in the round it features again set pieces that are in the afforementioned Cirque "deconstructionist" style with rods, hinges and moving parts visible. Highly effective and highly recommended. Finally, for this lover of live musical theater, "Encore" was quite simply THE BEST Disney show I have EVER seen. And it is done COMPLETELY in English. I will not do another mini review of this show(it has been detailed many times here). What I WILL say is that if you visited TDS and DID NOT see "Encore" you REALLY robbed yourself of an AMAZING stage show experience. The performers give TWO HUNDRED percent and I actually felt sorry for them that the Japanese audience did not give them the kind of ovation they deserved. Again, maybe it was the language barrier that prevented them from appreciating the show fully. All I can say(selfishly)is that I was VERY glad the OLC decided to do THIS show in English. I appreciated it VERY much.
Originally Posted By dennis-in-ct Personally, I think I would much rather have "luke warm" attractions and an outstanding, lavish themed environment than a GOOD ferris wheel or roller coaster in a "flat" "klunker" themed area. What makes a Disney park? For me ... The themed environments which allow us to feel transported to another "place" and envelop our imagination. A highly involved environment with stunning detail does that and DisneySea seems to have that in spades. It has an incredible foundation on which to grow as your article pointed out. I would rather spend my money and time in an environment like DisneySea than the not-so-well done area of Paradise Pier with it's - perhaps - "better" attractions like California Screamin. On a side note ... I think Boardwalk at WDW works really well. I just don't like Paradise Pier (loved the rest of DCA - had fun). Thank you for a wonderful article. It was very well written and did reflect a balanced account of your experience in the park. The article has not deterred me from wanting to visit. I am most looking forward to SINBAD, the shows, and the environment. The experiences and thoughts you shared were very enjoyable to read. Thank you. Random comments on the article: - The park has room for expansion and I am sure the New York area will have an E-Ticket that will compliment the existence of the Columbia. Even without an attraction in this area, I love the look of this area and feel dining is a valid experience in a theme park just like it is in EPCOT. As I feel these parks *are* a step above other theme parks and do advance the concept of theme park. - *gasp* You were not impressed with Animal Kingdoms Kilimanjaro Safaris?! *clutch chest* I am floored by the park as a whole. I love it. It emotionally touches me. - I have been to Paris and walked through the Nautilus. It is well done. I was under the impression this basically *was* the queue for the 20K attraction. From pics I have seen, it almost seems that way - unless I am confusing the 20K queue with the Journey queue. - Glad to hear your impressions of the Fortress are what I imagine my reaction would be. - The pics and video I have seen of the The New York area look great but your reaction seems to be more impressive when seeing this area in person. I look forward to the experience in person. - About the elevated train rides - I remember reading they could not go around the park as trains with more than two stops would fall under government regulation. Also the same reason the Steam Train at their Magic Kingdom does a figure 8 in Westernland only and not around the whole park. - Interesting to hear how much fun you thought Aquatopia was as I have read many people's lack-luster impressions on this attraction. - The 3-D Genie movie. What were the gags? Why is this such a let down. And yes, I agree, BUGS is VERY well done. - Speaking about the "right" park for the right place. I always thought DCA would be a SMASH HIT in Paris as the Europeans seem to visibly swoon when California is mentioned. While I was in Paris, people would ask where I am from and I reply "New York" and they are like .. oh, that's nice. Conversation turns to other areas of the States and California is ALWAYS mentioned. The Europeans LOVE California. DCA would have been a blockbuster. - The *idea* of DisneySea. I agree it is like Disneyland 2.0 - I have said so before. They really did re-invent Disneyland. The name DisneySea was very obvious to me and I think it is brilliant. What's next? DisneySky? And your comment toward the end: <<<<Its execution is first-rate, but DisneySea doesn't advance the theme park experience. It doesn't prove to me that parks have to be so ornately constructed, with such huge budgets, in order to be worthwhile. It’s not so good that it obsoletes the parks that preceded it, even California Adventure.>>> hmmm ... Yes, I had fun at DCA. I liked the place - as a *start*. The details and quality of construction is so lavish at DisneySea that I think this level of construction and detail *do* advance the idea of "theme park" - just like Epcot and Disneyland Paris did. The *theme park* in these case are not so much about the zippy coasters as it is about creating mood and emotion. Mood and emotion is a distinguishing difference between these GREAT Disney parks and parks like IOA and DCA I think, no? The environment is the experience. Animal Kingdom does this for me in conjunction with a powerful experience of the Animals. I love that place for the way it transports me and makes me "feel". I imagine DisneySea will emotionally touch me and the environments will transport me to another "place". I personally think this type of experience is more powerful than the attractions themselves. Again, THANK YOU for an EXCELLENT article. You wrote an terrific piece Greg. I look forward to reading more of your work.
Originally Posted By OrlandoBoi Denny-you know I loves ya but I would have to say that as it is, TDS is NOT a foundation for a good theme park. It is probably the GREATEST FULLY REALIZED park since Epcot Center opened in 1982. I spent three full days at TDS and STILL had to be dragged out at closing on my last day, my head turned so that my last image of the park was Mt. Prometheus through the Mira Costa arch. In five to ten years, if the OLC keeps plussing to the park, TDS will be THE PREMIER theme park in the world. I look forward to a time when TDS will be AWE INSPIRING. At the moment it is "merely" incredible. ; ) As for the 20K queue area-no, it does not go anywhere near the Nautilus. The large green spiral structure(which holds a winch with one of the 20K ride vehicles supported up in the air)that you may have seen in photos leads guests down into a lower queue area which is almost at water level. Down in THAT area, which has switchbacks, you will pass some of Nemo's displays. These include maps of Mysterious Island and(from memory)either plans or models of the ride submersibles. On busy days when the queue unfortunately is longer, guests will queue out the main entrance archway to Mysterious Island and hug the side of the volcano(with switchbacks)almost back to the Roman ruins(i.e., on the right side of the harbor as you face Mt. Prom from the entrance). The JttCotE riders wait inside a HUGE queuing area that is housed inside a MASSIVE cavern(which you enter AFTER you see the "Journey to the Center of the Earth" sign). On heavy days there, riders queue in a switchbach area immediately outside THAT cavern where the FP machines are located. This area is back from the internal part of the volcano where you can see the drilling vehicle stuck entering the cavern. The Nautilus is docked outside in the caldera and is basically just a large set piece sitting in the water. You CAN walk up to it via a gangway and look into the bridge which houses brass fittings, gauges and a wheel. You cannot however go into it(yet). I think however that it is far too small to house a walkthrough which would be able to handle the insatiable locals. I know this all sounds confusing Denny(I will send you a schematic layout with my tapes). I guess you have to actually visit to see it for yourself. Suffice to say that these areas are MASSIVE and unlike almost anything I saw at a Disney park(if ONLY for the fact that theming is consistent and the illusion is maintained)elsewhere on my vacation.
Originally Posted By Faith <<Besides the fact that I don't typically enjoy live entertainment, DisneySea's shows are in Japanese, which would really present a challenge for me. >> Just to expand on what Brad said: Mystic Rhythms: No narration or lyrics. Encore: a revue of Broadway songs, all done in English (I believe some were instrumental) Little Mermaid: English songs with some Japanese dialogue Sail Away (performed with the backdrop of the SS Columbia): mainly English songs but some in Japanese; some Japanese dialogue Porto Paradiso Water Carnival: English songs. If there was any Japanese narration, it was minimal. Disney Sea Symphony: Does this feature any lyrics or dialogue? I can't remember. So in sum, while the attractions at TDS are *very* heavily geared to a Japanese audience, I found the shows to be much more accessible to foreigners. I'm not sure why the park was designed this way. Again, one's perspective on a theme park totally depends on what one values in the theme park experience. I personally think the quality and magic of the live entertainment options are a lot of what makes Disney parks so special.
Originally Posted By Faith <<*Everyone* has written honest assessments of the resorts attractions, shops, restaurants, hotels, etc...honest because they have expressed how these things made them feel. If you don't agree, fine, but to label it as "propaganda" is frankly, insulting. >> Exactly. I had a magical time at TDS but there were certain things I like more than others. I tried to be fair in my trip report, though I'd rather err on the side of being more postive. I have enough negative energy in my life without having to create more. <<Especially since, what the heck do any of us have to gain by saying that we love it? >> There is one thing I have to gain by loving TDS: Debt. It's MUCH cheaper to go to WDW than to go back to Tokyo.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss I luvs you too OrlandoBoi, but I take issue with your statement that TDSea is the most fully realized theme park since the Opening of Epcot. IMO, DLP opened as a fully realized park as well. I had the same blown-away, couldn't-bear-to-leave, feelings about DLP when I went in saw it in 1992 as I did with TDSea last year.
Originally Posted By OrlandoBoi Cool. Sorry russ-I never considered DLP....which is surprising since not only do I have Denny's BEAUTIFUL video footage of the park, I also had Tony Baxter trying to brainwash me into going there ASAP a few weeks ago. ; ) Let's hope however that TDS continues its succesful course into profitability, unlike the ornate EDL.
Originally Posted By dennis-in-ct Thanks for the descriptions OrlandoBoi - I was thinking about the displays of Nemo's suits and maps in the queue of 20K. My impressions were that was almost like the DLP walk though Nautilus. Russ can shed light on this as he has been to both. Thanks for backing up some of my statements Russ about the lavish detail and construction at DLP. Most don't really understand how well it is done. Faith - I agree 100% about the shows. All the tapes I have seen on the park make one thing VERY clear. Tokyo exceeds in the shows and entertainment. The shows would be my preference. I would rather see the Mermaid show, Mystic Rhythms, or ENCORE rather than 20K or Magic Lamp. Faith, could you re-post the link to your trip report. I never finished it.
Originally Posted By OrlandoBoi I understand Denny!!!!! (God-I am starting to sound like Butters!) ; ) I noticed the INCREDIBLE detail in the Fantasyland buildings and Main Street from your EXCEPTIONALLY well done videos. Thank you sir.
Originally Posted By Mr X Yeah, it was really beautiful but all the garbage in the street really detracts from the experience! : P And don't worry Dennis, thanks to ME you will see it all and still have time for your frequent coffee breaks! : D
Originally Posted By dennis-in-ct <<<And don't worry Dennis, thanks to ME you will see it all and still have time for your frequent coffee breaks!>>> mmmmm ... having a cup right now : ) and BTW - would anyone else like to comment on if DisneySea advances the concept of theme park? This was a question posed at the end of the article.
Originally Posted By Mr X Well, I have yet to bother to read the article. Not sure if I ever will...anyone who dismisses out of hand the shows and entertainment at TDR is missing a WHOLE lot of the point of the place imho. As far as DisneySea advancing the concept of a theme park...I think not. Enhances would be a better term I think. In fact, since Disneyland, the only park that I think came close to "advancing" the concept of a theme park is Epcot. But even there they fell FAR short of the ideas that Walt Disney came up with. HE was planning to advance the whole concept of EVERYTHING by building a city based on the future and entertainment. THAT would have been something to see, I think. Everything else is just variations on a theme. And Dennis, before you throw AK in my face (a park which I think is VERY cool, by the way) I must point out that there are no huge leaps or innovations or "new stuff" there either. AK is another park that I would say "enhances" the experience of, in this case, a safari/animal park. Cool, but DEFINITELY not ground breaking. Universal has done a good job of enhancing the experience as well< I think, with their Florida parks (never been to Cali., and I know little about that place). Universal Studios Orlando to a point, but definitely IOA (the first really nicely themed and immersive thrill park to hit the scene imo) have enhanced the theme park experience. For the sake of not angering anyone, I have chosen not to comment about WDSP, DCA, or MGM for that matter. The four Magic Kingdoms speak for themselves. For an entertainment zone that will truly "advance" the idea of a recreational place ("park" is kind of a dated term in a way) I think we will have to look beyond Disney. They will keep giving us what the people are demanding...as TDLFAN says "simple parks for simple minds" and I don't see THAT mega corporation taking the kind of chance that Walt did and trying to take a REAL risk and give us something different that MAYBE people will like. I just can't picture it. Maybe pixar, or dreamworks, or some Vagas casino, or some unknown will usher in the next level. Or maybe not. It's very possible that this is what we're gonna get for a long time... Anyway, just my 2 yen. : )
Originally Posted By MagicalNezumi If you look closely at some of the objects located inside TDS's "Nautilus", you'd be able to a Hidden Mickey. -- MagicalNezumi
