Originally Posted By disneyboy1985 <<It's your opinion or perception of the park and I respect that. TDS may not be for everyone...and that's OK.>> Oh don't get the wrong idea TDLFAN, I love the park, it jsut puzzles me why they seem to build such a good second gate park but yet the crowds are not as receptive as those of TDL. Arabian Coast could be barren by the time evening comes, and my friend and I practically had the whole Sinbad boat to ourselves. I mean, Disney could sure build a worse second gate park right? ;-)
Originally Posted By Mr X I don't think we should get TOO carried away here. After all, if DisneySea is doing worse than expected it's surely not by much. Let's not forget that first year pulled in TWELVE million customers and almost matched TDL...bringing the resort up to the 25 million guests they'd projected. As for the Arabian Coast, I don't think that's a particularly popular area of the park. DisneySea sure did seem packed over Christmas time, with long lines to get tickets for the Christmas show (sometimes going all the way past the Columbia, over the bridge, into Cape Cod to the end of THAT zone, and then wrapping back again! three hours or so!)...and the fact that the park seems dead SOMETIMES doesn't mean it's not still getting close to it's share of revenue. Lee had some interesting stuff to say in another thread about not enough one day ticket holders, but I'll leave him to get into that. I'll finish with this...certainly DisneySea is performing the best out of the new parks. DCA has been throwing in everything but the kitchen sink and tons of freebies to get people into the park, and still coming up short. The jury is still out on HK. And WDSP, I recently read, had trouble attraction ONE million guests last year! :O
Originally Posted By paulyahoo << And WDSP, I recently read, had trouble attraction ONE million guests last year! >> DLRP annual report is not yet available, but if you consider the following chart: <a href="http://www.forbes.com/travel/2005/05/26/cx_sb_0526feat_2.html" target="_blank">http://www.forbes.com/travel/2 005/05/26/cx_sb_0526feat_2.html</a> and this EuroDisney SCA financial report: <a href="http://www.eurodisney.com/en/pdf/financial_report_2005_uk.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.eurodisney.com/en/p df/financial_report_2005_uk.pdf</a> you will get two numbers: 12.3 million guests in the two parks combined and 10.2 million guests in DLP alone. The difference is 2.1 million visitors for WDSP.
Originally Posted By Mr X Sorry. Thought I read 1 mil somewhere... But STILL, consider that DisneySea receives close to the same number of guests as TDL, DCA gets roughly half of DL, and WDSP A full FIFTH of the guests who chose to check out Disneyland Paris... Sorry, but those numbers seem to be an indication of, something?
Originally Posted By paulyahoo In reality French numbers are quite stable for many years. They have about 12.5 million annual visitors, many of them now have either park hoppers, hotel packages or APs. Basing on my own observations, the majority of people go to DLP in the morning and later hop to WDSP. We know that Disney counts guests on a first click basis, so no wonder about low WDSP numbers.
Originally Posted By Mr X Well, gee, it sounds like the new park didn't improve things at all! Compare that to TDR, where the numbers went from 18 million visitors to 25 million when DisneySea opened! Why even BUILD the park if it's not going to improve the resorts bottom line!? Then again, I heard some strange things about how they "had" to build a second gate in Paris due to some agreements? If so, that could explain some of why the new place is SO barren and lackluster!
Originally Posted By paulyahoo Yes, they were forced to build a second gate because of contractual obligations. The park is OK for a first time visitor, but it has almost no repeat value. Right now I personally visit it only for RNRC and Cinemagique.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< If TDS were located 10 miles east I57, it would be located close to the city of Chiba in another prefecture I'd suppose. >>> As a point of order, TDS is already located in Chiba prefecture, just as Chiba city is. It's not actually in Tokyo any more than WDW is actually in Orlando. Chiba Disney Resort just doesn't have a good ring to it, so they stuck with Tokyo, although they do pay homage to it by having Chiba Traders in Adventureland. <<< <<If I wasn't at work I'd post a famous SuperDry mega-post on the subject.>> I won't name names, but SOMEONE's secondary school Engish teacher has been reduced to tears once again over the fact that her students never pay attention during her "subjunctive" lecture. >>> I've even looked up subjunctive in the dictionary and STILL don't understand what you said!
Originally Posted By Mr X I think he means you should have written "if I weren't..."? That'd be my guess. So where's the mega-post anyway? lol.
Originally Posted By leemac <<But STILL, consider that DisneySea receives close to the same number of guests as TDL>> I think everyone has an issue with the way OLC calculates its attendance. I don't think they use the "first click" principle that the other parks do. I am very sceptical that the published numbers are a true representation of what is happening. Attendance isn't bad but the issue is F&B and merchandise. Merch in particular has been the driving force of OLC profits since TDL's 15th. They can't sell TDS stuff and it sits on the shelves for a long time (especially the first few anniversaries' products). I don't know how you correct that.
Originally Posted By kmovies They may use first click but that still gives the advantage to TDS. There's no way to park hop for the first two days of any multi day ticket (except for APs or buying another ticket) 3 day ticket: Day 1 - TDL only TDL one click Day 2 - TDS only TDS one click Day 3 - Park Hop toss up Total: TDL 1 or 2; TDS 1 or 2 3 day ticket: Day 1 - Park Hop DL or DCA Day 2 - Park Hop DL or DCA Day 3 - Park Hop DL or DCA Total: 0 - 3 per park; depending on where you go first. Easily could mean 3 DL and 0 DCA - even though each park gets visited each day. Granted, DisneySea is an awsome park, but with hardly any new shows or attractions in the first 5 years doesn't give you a reason to return. They did add Raging Spirits and are now adding TOT, so you would have new reasons to return. I feel that the lack of "new" stuff has hurt the attendance.
Originally Posted By leemac kmovies, good point but 3- and 4-day passes are the minority of those sold by a country mile. One day passes significantly outsell any other (both normal, group and MKC discount). It would be interesting to know how many TDL and TDS APs there are.
Originally Posted By SuperDry It would also be interesting to know that of the 2-4 day passes sold, how many are sold with both the 1st and 2nd days at TDL.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I feel that the lack of "new" stuff has hurt the attendance.>> That is still my position too.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss When I went to TDS, my thoughts were, "Wow, that is incredible!" and "Gee, there's not much to do." They went so far with the theming, which I thought was wonderful, but so much of it just sits there and all you can do is look at it. Case in point, all the ships and boats at American Waterfront, and the Nautilus in Mysterious Island. They all looked great, but I was disappointed you could actually board any of them. Both American Waterfront and Port Discovery have so much theming, but no real substance, IMO. ToT will definitely help the Waterfront; the three "rides" now aren't exactly exciting.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<I think he means you should have written "if I weren't...">> X-actly right. Thanks! In retrospect, I have NO idea why I drew attention to that in the first place. Sorry, SuperDry!
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 I also think ticketing might have something to do with it. TDR seems to be the most inflexible resort when it comes to tickets. If they offered park hopper tickets that allowed you to go between parks every day, instead of forcing you to choose which ones to visit first, that might help. Also, a one day park hopper for a little extra money might help too. I just think the ticketing scheme seems to rigid and could be loosened to match the other Disney parks around the world.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss Too bad they no longer offer the ticket books and general admission w/o rides. TDL was the last park to offer those options.
Originally Posted By irishfan >>Why even BUILD the park if it's not going to improve the resorts bottom line!?<< Well regarding the WDSP, they HAD to build. If not, they would have lost the land.
