Originally Posted By Bob Paris "I'm sure you and I don't need them nor many on these boards but talking with several over the years who have 'toured' WDW and Dl Anaheim ..... GOOD GOD do they need help in the worst way. These ignorant folk show up missing superheadliner attractions that they didn't even know existed and pay the most money for the least experiences." I know what you mean. Check out this horrific case in point. In 2000, my then g/f and I were planning our holiday of a lifetime to the US. We had a female friend over for dinner who had just returned from America, just to pick her brains and hear from the horse's mouth some things we might learn from. As a MAJOR Disney nut I was, of course, interested in DL(she only went West Coast). We talked about the ease of getting around, who long she was at the park and so on. At one point I asked her, "So did you enjoy Splash Mountain?" She stared at me blankly for a few seconds before saying not only hadn't she ridden it but she had never heard of it. Wait, it gets worse. A LOT worse. Since I was thinking of that side of the park I asked about the Haunted Mansion. Again with that glassy stare(and what must have been a dawning realization on her part). POTC? Nope. Indiana Jones? Nada. FREAKIN JUNGLE CRUISE?!? Zip. She hadn't heard of ANY of them. I went to a cupboard and got out an old souvenir guide book from a friend. I opened up a basic park map and pointed out where these attractions and others were located. Her response? "WOW - I DID NOT even know that side of the park existed!!!" She didn't go to Advetureland, New Orleans Square, Critter Country or Frontierland. And she was GUTTED. That would have been my WORST nightmare. But it's like I always tell these noobs, "Come to ME first!!!"
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< At one point I asked her, "So did you enjoy Splash Mountain?" She stared at me blankly for a few seconds before saying not only hadn't she ridden it but she had never heard of it. Wait, it gets worse. A LOT worse. Since I was thinking of that side of the park I asked about the Haunted Mansion. Again with that glassy stare(and what must have been a dawning realization on her part). POTC? Nope. Indiana Jones? Nada. She hadn't heard of ANY of them. >>> I thought the punch line was going to be that she had actually been to HKDL!
Originally Posted By barboy My stories are not that flagrant--- but some of those trip reports for first timers or even second time goers leave me shaking my head in disbelief. Here's one: I know a family of 3 who has done two trips from Calif. out to WDW and they still have not seen EPCOT because of.... well get this..........they 'heard' EPCOT is not for children and they have a 9 year old. See the sheer ignorance and stupidity of Disney fans out there. I just about came unglued when they told me.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< they 'heard' EPCOT is not for children and they have a 9 year old. See the sheer ignorance and stupidity of Disney fans out there. I just about came unglued when they told me. >>> With life in general, my personal experience is that whenever someone says "I heard <XYZ stupid thing>" and you ask the obvious follow-up question of "where did you hear that?" the answer is inevitably: "I don't know." BTW, is it possible that in your case, the idea of seeing exhibits about various countries around the world wasn't appealing to the parents?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 I think the criticism of Kevin is quite unjust -- I think it is wonderful tool for an American Disney fan going to Japan for the first time, like a certain Spirit. Whether or not you need to learn through experience or whether you can gain much of the same info by asking people on a message board such as this is really immaterial. The book does a great job and covers a whole lot of territory. It will be in my carry-on. I hope Kevin sells a lot of them!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 As to Bob's story of his friend missing half of DL, I can appreciate that. I see and hear similar stories all the time, which basically proves my point that many people are well ... stupid. Sometimes I'll just eavesdrop on a converation at a resort pool or on a cruise ship etc ... and hear the most, bizarre, inane, half-assed trip-planning ... and if the people seem nice, I'll step and help set them straight ... if they seem like the process of natural selection is a good thing in their case, I'll just smile and not say a word. (Like when some obnoxious racists were convinced they were going to get a monorail at the TTC to Sea World and that the Fantastic show was there at night ... yep, didn't say one word)
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones I won't argue that there haven't been extreme cases where the most retarded people in the world visit a Disney theme park and have no idea what they're doing. But I don't think that is representative of the general populace and most people are good natured and intelligent enough to navigate a Disney theme park or resort. It's not rocket science. If you really think that everybody who goes to Disneyland checks their brain at the gate and you have to "set them straight", that's a really elitist viewpoint to have. As for missing attractions, some people just like to go slow. I've gone with people who go at the most mind-numbing pace. It's not that they are too stupid to enjoy their day at Disneyland, it's just that they stop to smell the flowers and meander around Disneyland, instead of hitting every ride 10 times because they know the "secret" Fastpass trick or whatever. I sort of envy them.
Originally Posted By barboy ///BTW, is it possible that in your case, the idea of seeing exhibits about various countries around the world wasn't appealing to the parents?/// ya, I'd say quite possible. But I still shake my head wondering what were they thinking(or not thinking). They love Dl Anaheim, enjoy DCA--- so much that they were inspired to hit WDW-- and really had a great time at MK, AK and Dis. Studios but somehow won't appreciate EPCOT?? Of course they are not making sense. How can one have a palate for all USA Disney parks but spit out EPCOT? Like someone who really wishes they had a Lamboghini, Porshe, Aston Martin, Lotus, Maserati but wants nothing to do with Ferraris--- it just doesn't follow. 1) they are Disney fans afterall--- enough to fly out to Orlando solely to see WDW. 2) they, like just about all others who come from far away, had hopper passes---thus, eliminating any exta cost to see EPCOT. 3) EPCOT, for just about every Disney park fan who has easy access to Dl Anaheim, is the main event or draw in WDW.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< they stop to smell the flowers and meander around Disneyland, instead of hitting every ride 10 times because they know the "secret" Fastpass trick or whatever. >>> There's a lot to be said for that. But that's a different phenomenon than what's mostly being talked about here. It does seem of late that the Disney park maps have key attractions noted on the guide map as "favorites" or something like that, in order to help out the first-time guest who has no idea what they're doing and has only the guide map as a guide. Speaking of which, I think that's a perfectly fine way to go about visiting a new Disney park. You probably have at least a very vague idea of what the park is about before going (such as it's a studio park, or it's about animals, or what not), but beyond that, there's a lot to be said for just walking through the turnstile, picking up the guide map at that point, and seeing where it takes you. I think that where people can go wrong is if they've NEVER been to a Disney park before, and are using other amusement parks as a guide - perhaps a Six Flags park for example. In that case, they may not realize that some of the best attractions are not at all obvious to the casual observer as such, or even that they are attractions at all. Think about how POTC and HM might seem to someone that knows nothing about a Disney park.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "there's a lot to be said for just walking through the turnstile, picking up the guide map at that point, and seeing where it takes you." I think Fastpass has ruined this type of approach though. Not using Fastpass puts you at an immediate disadvantage because you will be waiting in the slower standby lines. John Hench talks about creating spaces within Disneyland that facilitate decision making and that the hub was built to allow families to "huddle" and decide the next movie. Of course, the more time you spend deciding and the less you spend riding, the less your unlimited ride ticket is worth at the end of the day. The genius of tickets is that you only incurred that cost when you rode, aside from the modest entry free (which included a few free sponsored attractions anyway). You weren't on the clock in a race to ride the most attractions in a day. Of course, you could do that, but you could also put away your tickets, go home, and come back another day to use them. With the unlimited ride ticket, you better use it or lose it. If Disneyland is to be an experience not unlike the narrative of a movie, then planning every move you make before you arrive is akin to spoiling the movie for you! For a fee RideMax will print out the script for you. Knock yourself out, but it's not for me.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< I think Fastpass has ruined this type of approach though. Not using Fastpass puts you at an immediate disadvantage because you will be waiting in the slower standby lines. >>> I don't know that it's ruined it, but it has changed it. Assuming that a new visitor reads the explanation of FastPass on the guide map, it's not that difficult a concept to understand and use even for a first-time guest. I suspect that they would either a) wander around, or b) pick what looked interesting on the map and head in that direction. The first time they got to an attraction with a standby line longer than they'd like, they'll grab a FastPass and move on to something else and come back later. Not a big deal at all. The comment I was responding to above was the notion of people that must optimize FP to the hilt, running from one side of the park to another, and maximizing things like late FP and "disconnected" FP just because they can. But this sort of thing has been going on long before FP, with people purposely eating at odd hours, riding certain attractions when a parade is running, or picking a particular spot along the parade route depending on which direction the parade is running, and so on.
Originally Posted By danyoung >The first time they got to an attraction with a standby line longer than they'd like, they'll grab a FastPass and move on to something else and come back later. Not a big deal at all.< I couldn't have said it better, as this is the way I tour. I tend to ignore FP, with two exceptions. When I open the park, I'll usually pick up a FP at one of the monster attractions that always has a long line, like Indy or Space Mtn. And then I'll do exactly as you stated - see a queue that's too long, check to see if the FP times will work for me, and then either get a FP for that attraction or just skip it till the next time. FP has ruined nothing.
Originally Posted By X-san ***I thought the punch line was going to be that she had actually been to HKDL!*** lol.
Originally Posted By X-san Well, I have my own embarrassing "newbie" story to tell. In fairness, I was 12, Epcot was brand new, and even Birnbaum was not yet covering the place. Anyway, we went to Epcot and I had a great time. Saw "everything", or so I thought. Got back to the hotel and was talking to some other kids (it was a group trip, with a band), and I was like "so where'd you guys eat? "Japan" was the reply. I was like "Japan"? "What are you talking about?". Thinking, "there's no "Japan" in the future", I let it go, thinking they were confused. But it was *I* who was confused, having never set foot in or realized that World Showcase even existed! lol. On the bright side, I did all of Future World (that I'm certain of), and considering how people recommend doing Epcot over two days and REALLY experiencing each section, I think I did things properly. It was nearly a decade before I got to go back and see World Showcase for the first time, though.
Originally Posted By Brandis Having been to TDR for the first and until now only time in 2005 but going back in October, I bought Kevin's book not so much as a planning help but rather to see how he experienced TDR. Once thing I noticed was that he recommends the Disney busses over the Monorail in order to save on the ticket costs. When we were there 3 years ago, we received free length-of-stay Monorail tickets. Has this changed in the meantime, so you would buy a ticket for each day you want to use it?
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan << Has this changed in the meantime, so you would buy a ticket for each day you want to use it?>> Only the Disney hotels offer this service now, I believe.
Originally Posted By Brandis I just noticed on the transportation page on TDRs website it says that Ambassador Hotel guests now are excluded from getting free monorail passes. I think Kevin stayed at the Ambassador, so maybe he thought that all Disney hotel guests have to pay for the Monorail.
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan That's really odd and a bit unfair, though at the higher prices you're paying for the other two, maybe not. They do have the Disney Resort Cruiser to get back and forth, so maybe it's not a huge loss.
Originally Posted By Brandis Found in Hotel Guest Benefits: <a href="http://www.tokyodisneyresort.co.jp/tdr/english/hotel/dh_tokuten.html" target="_blank">http://www.tokyodisneyresort.c...ten.html</a> 4.Convenient Shuttle Bus & Monorail Services Guests staying at Tokyo DisneySea Hotel MiraCosta and Tokyo Disneyland Hotel receive complimentary tickets for the Disney Resort Line monorail which links the major areas of the Resort. Complimentary shuttle bus service aboard the Disney Resort Cruiser is provided between the Disney Parks and the Ambassador Hotel. Note: Complimentary tickets for the Disney Resort Line are no longer available to Guests staying at the Disney Ambassador Hotel.
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan It seems like they're just being cheap. The Ambassador has always received this benefit, and the only reason it's not anymore is because the 2000+ guests at the Tokyo Disneyland Hotel are going to need it more than them. I guess they just don't want too many people having free passes.
