Originally Posted By Mr X ***What about Kirk Cameron handing out those books is HATEFUL.*** Well, this is an impass. Based on your previous comments about how they're just "misguided" by claiming your church was created by the devil, you've proven that you'll accept ANY religious type no matter what they do, simply because they're religious (but misguided cause they're not part of the "right" religion, which is yours). And yet you can't engage with a non-believer without scorn or distain. Why wouldn't you hate THEM more? THEY'RE the ones saying your religion is born out of EVIL. I've never said that. Neither has any atheist I've talked to or read about. And yet you feel more compassion and genuine brotherhood towards them. Amazing.
Originally Posted By mele <<And yet you can't engage with a non-believer without scorn or distain. >> I have a lot of issues w/Josh but I don't think this is true.
Originally Posted By Mr X When it comes to religious discussions, I believe it's very much true. But in any case as I said, this is an impasse because I can't fathom why a guy who is accused of being in a church made by Satan would support and backup the accuser...I have no words. And as for the book, how can one not see the hate implicit in vandalizing and distributing a book of science in order to attempt to discredit it and turn young people away from science and knowledge. It's repugnant. I can't understand the person who can't see that.
Originally Posted By Mr X Because you fully endorse abhorrent, harmful actions? Yeah, that does bug me a lot.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan I think this tactic is pretty ham-fisted. Sometimes people who are fervent in their faith think that there will be this sudden "AH HA!" moment and people will suddenly come running to God. I know it happens, but I bet for most people, it is something that develops over time. Stunts like this book distribution really do not help. In fact, I think these clumsy, in your face things backfire. People don't like bait and switch tactics.
Originally Posted By utahjosh I'll defend Kirk's right to say whatever he wants to about my religion. I really think that he's not doing it out of hate, but that he really thinks it's the best way to help people. That said, I don't agree with the way he does it. The LDS generally try to avoid putting down other relgions - we say "bring all the good you have and let us add to it" instead of "here are all the reasons you are wrong. I believe Satan has had a role in confusing the world away from what is true. That includes influencing Kirk Cameron and others to believe something that isn't true, and leading them to want to bring the truth down. Doesn't mean I think he's a bad, hateful person.
Originally Posted By utahjosh I don't even really LIKE this thing with the book. I don't want the book. I'd rather they didn't pass them out. All I said is it wasn't a hateful thing to do. I said that only because I'm tired of the word HATE being used so incorrectly.
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster It's funny that the word HATE is only acceptable to some people when they are on the receiving end of it.
Originally Posted By utahjosh Nah. I HATE lots of things: sprained ankles, hard water, toothaches, certain words, and more.
Originally Posted By utahjosh And as much as it might disappoint you, I don't know anyone that I hate. Well, I guess I hate Satan, but I don't know him that well. But from what i've heard, I hate the dude.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I'll defend Kirk's right to say whatever he wants to about my religion. I really think that he's not doing it out of hate, but that he really thinks it's the best way to help people.*** Why then don't you defend MY right to say what I want about your religion assaulting equal rights for all? Frankly I think my complaint is quite a bit more mild than "your whole faith is the spawn of evil", but maybe that's just me.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I don't want the book.*** Have you never read "Origin of Species"? You've often remarked "I really don't know" when asked about Creation/Evolution arguments, I think reading the textbook in question would be an excellent beginning for you.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Well, I guess I hate Satan, but I don't know him that well. But from what i've heard, I hate the dude.*** According to your religion, does Jesus hate Satan? Just curious (the relationship is seemingly a lot more complex than in other religions I've studied where he's just a "fallen angel" kind of figure).
Originally Posted By Mr X Post 75 was an honest question by the way, not meant to be sarcastic or anything...feel free to just direct me to a link or something if you don't want to discuss it, or ignore it all together if you want. I've tried lately to avoid religion "baiting" as much as possible, the arguments it leads to are simply endless...
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder I believe in God but I don't believe there's a "Satan". Just thought I'd throw that in, apropos of nothing.
Originally Posted By Mr X The Satan notion doesn't really phase me, as it makes sense in any story for the hero (God) to have a nemesis (Satan). The concept of hell though, really intrigues me. I mean, so often religious folks point to the "beautiful, perfect" Universe as proof of God, but many of the same folks also believe in hell...a place that could only be described as "pure evil". So, did God create that place too? Does he control it? If he created it, how could he if he's perfectly good? If he didn't create it, how is he all-powerful? How could a perfect being, in his perfect Universe, allow a place of pure evil to exist? Or, is God not powerful enough to challenge the Devil in his own domain? It doesn't make any sense, but then again a lot of these concepts are filled with plot holes (don't get me started on reincarnation!).
Originally Posted By plpeters70 When you really think about it, the whole concept of Hell is just repugnant! I mean, I can’t think of anyone – and I mean anyone – who deserves to suffer FOR ALL ETERNITY! Can you even imagine what that would be like – we’re not talking 100 years, or 1000, or even 1000000 – we’re talking FOREVER! That’s really just a sick concept to me – and I can’t imagine ANY god who could claim to be all loving and good, and yet would allow anyone to suffer like that.
