Originally Posted By Skellington88 Copper Space Mountain looked hideous in Californa. It looked like the mountain had rusted and nobody bothered to refurbish it. What they were trying to go for is Paris's Space Mountain look which has a rich gold color and some nice green and red lines around the spires. I don't understand why they didnt just paint ours EXACTLY like Paris's version. To me, TL'98 was the begining of the "haf-assed" era of Imagineering. Instead of going all the way with a theme and spending the necessary money to do it right they just threw together a mishmash of old epcot attractions (innoventions, hista...ironically two of the lamest attractions at epcot), some paris stuff (a mini verison of paris's astro orbitor, sound on space mountain which broke, similar color design that came out all wrong, and steampunk themed rides which resulted in Rocket rods), and finally added eisner's input which amounted to adding edible plants everywhere whcih probably wasted budget. I understand after the Euro Disneyland fiasco and the death of Frank Wells the company had to quickly tigthen the belt because wall street was critizing the company. But what they should have done is postponed the TL 2055 plans rather than throw together this mismatch. Howevr, even this mismatch TL would have been better if it got its original funding. If you look at the concept art and read Tony Baxters interviews TL'98 was supposed to include: - A FULL SIZE Astro Orbitor that would have looked pretty much identical to Paris's version. There would have also been a water fountain at the base of the orbitor. - Timekeeper would have replaced Circlevision 360. - Star Tours would have been replaced with Star Tours 2 (Later Baxter said it was moved to phase 2 of "New Tomorrowland" which never happened) - Rocket Rods with banked turns and a whole "show" featuring special effects and themeing. - New Monorails that were a homage a new design that kind of paid homage to the Alweg III monorails. (We are finally getting these now LOL) - Outdoor themeing to the area - Refurbished Space Mountain with onride music like Paris. (Finally recieved a proper version in 2005). And of course we would have still ended up with HISTA and Innoventions. Phase Two was supposed to include: - Atlantis Expedition/Encounter. Replacement for Submarine Voyage would have been loosely based on the Disney movie "Atlantis" and would have fit in with the Victorian era futurism/Steampunk themeing. - A new version of Coutndown to Extinction from Animal Kingdom. Replacing the Grand Canyon and Primeval World dioramas. I think was going to become a big building and replace something else as well. and of course... - Star Tours 2 If they would have even stuck to these plans I don't think they would have recieved nearly as many complaints as they ended up getting for poor budgeting and poor execution.
Originally Posted By ArchtMig In a twisted sort of way, perhaps it was a good thing that we got such a bad New Tomorrowland in 1998 instead of the full blown visions that Skellington88 described in post #21 above. As much as I am a fan of Tony Baxter and think the world of him and his creativity and dedication to Disneyland, I think turning our Tomorrowland into a rehashed version of Paris' is a mistake. I'm glad that the budgets were cut, and the whole thing failed miserably, if for nothing else than I think, and hope, that we won't have to suffer through any more lame-o attempts to inject Jules Verne and H.G. Wells into Anaheim. I like the theme in Discoveryland plenty fine. I just really think that Walt Disney's original Disneyland deserves and needs a whole unique and different identity for itself. Maybe the blunders that were Tomorrowland '98 will be thought of as poison, in a manner that even the mere mention of "Light Magic" makes a Disney executive's stomach turn, and that eventually Disneyland's Tomorrowland will be unique, fresh, and original. NO MORE GOLDEN ORB ASTRO ORBITERS! <-- My new mantra.
Originally Posted By DBitz2 It's hard to believe that 10 years have passed. I was there on opening day. During the whole construction process, my friends ,one in particular, and I would go to the Park frequently and document the progress via photos and video. I was out of work part of that time, so was able to go about every week. Bruce Gordon was so impressed with my friends' photos that he took his album to Imagineering and had many of the folks who worked on '98 TL sign it. We were so excited with anticipation that we put on an elaborate TL presentation for our NFFC chapter. With the mostly downward spiral that TL has taken since, all that excitement now almost seems ironic. My friend moved away in early 2000. I keep telling him that he needs to move back to witness the next rebirth of TL (and DCA, we did the same thing watching and documenting it come to reality.)!
Originally Posted By ArchtMig >>>With the mostly downward spiral that TL has taken since...<<< I'm not sure I agree that TL has continued on a downward slope since New TL '98 first debuted. Since that time, we have lost Rocket Rods fairly early on, which was a significant loss, and the Observatron never really works anymore, which is no big whup, and the fountain around the spinning spherical rock has been removed, which is a good start. But during those years we have gotten a new and improved Autopia, Buzz Lightyear, total replacement of Space Mountain, (including painting the outside of the mountain white again!), and Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage! Innoventions keeps getting new things here and there, which is at least sumthin', and we have totally brand shiny new monorails on the way. It's like they've been piecemealing together an ever improving Tomorrowland in spite of the disaster that was TL '98. I would say that TL is 1/3 to 1/2 the way to full resurrection. What needs to happen now is a new Peoplemover, first and foremost, new Star Tours, replacement for HISTA (not another 3D movie, please), putting the Rocket Jets back up on the roof where they belong, and making Innoventions interesting or replacing it outright, and giving the land a whole new unique look and identity, and in my mind, DL TL will be back on top again.
Originally Posted By Mr F I missed the old Earth-tones TL especially the cooper Space Mt. White is ugly, plain, and boring just like te small world faced!
Originally Posted By lesmisfan i for one hated the copper not only for the new TL but also on space mt. It was a huge eye sore and made it look like a dump! i am very happy that disney decided to make space mt.white again instead of the trashy copperish colors that they once had on it.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Guess what? Everybody's right! The copper/green patina on space mountain looked cool when it was new - however it aged really poorly. >> (not another 3D movie, please) << I don't mind a 3D movie in there - it was constructed specifically for the purpose of 3D projection with enhanced theatre effects. There are too many film-based attractions at the resort, but not in DL 'proper'. I just want something with a good musical soundtrack to enhance it's repeatability. As I've said before, the star wars franchise is played out creatively, and I believe it's too late to put in an all new star wars themed attraction - especially in 'tomorrowland' of all places. But yes - star tours needs to be replaced like ten years ago. Same with innovations. This thing was stillborn on delivery, and hasn't improved significantly since then. Dump it. I think that the astro-obitor needs to be removed too, and I'm not particularly thrilled with the idea of putting another spinner on top of the roof. We don't need it. Finally, I think that with the arrival of 'carsland' (hopefully under another name) that 'autopia' will have outlived it's usefulness. This attraction has a huge footprint that could be used to much better advantage. Scrape it out of there and open that area up to foot traffic with retail, food & beverage and an actual attraction or two as a lure. There. TL problem solved. What's next?
Originally Posted By ryanbalas It's unfortunate that to get an experience of the future today - it would cost tons of money to create since they are using 21st century technology to entertain us in the normal things we see everyday at any of the Disney parks. Did everyone see the lighting technology they used to "wrap" the Tower of Terror overseas? Amazing. I miss the Rocket Rods. When I worked Small World and had my time in the tower, I would ask guests trivia questions. The one most often missed was "When are the Rocket Rods returning?" The passholders would always yell "Never!". 5 millon dollars to create the technology and build the cars and it didn't work well enough to keep it in operation. But, how many other amusement parks would spend that much on a ride? If I remember correctly, it cost 3 million to develop and bring Fastasmic to life.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Considering the mileage they got out of it, that's a bargain. Pooh was around $30-$40 million, nemo is rumored to be anywhere from $80-$120 million, TOT was about $70 million. On the other hand, how much was 'light magic'? Just because something's expensive doesn't mean it's good. Apparently, they didn't spend nearly enough on Rocket Rods - mostly on the vehicles themselves, and none on the track or the "show". Add to that lousy capacity and an oddly configured five person seating arrangement. Even the extensive queue had a negative impact on the land. It was a total misfire, and an indication that the people calling the shots on TL98 were creative hacks.
Originally Posted By monorailblue I'm not sure "hacks" exactly--there definitely was some creativity in everything done. The problem is that it wasn't interesting, entertaining, compelling, or long-lasting. It was LAME. It is the same thing which showed at DCA on Day 1. Lots of creativity, but only so very little of it had any far-reaching appeal or staying power. Take Eureka!, for example. That was a very creative parade. It just wasn't interesting or entertaining in any way. (I know--some of you love it, and are still offended that it was cancelled. It was cancelled because it was AWFUL.) Creative, but so are lots of "artists" whose product is not what they think it is. So "clueless" and/or "senseless" may be better terms.
Originally Posted By Zwitek I think the greatest failure of TL 98' was that it simply didn't go far enough. I could have lived with "less" attractions if the land itself had even more detail and theming. I always felt that what we had been given was half assed.
